Note: The below pics are via English Russia. Visit them to see more pics and their link to a website that appears to be tracking the war and where they got the pics from. I can't imagine going into an active war zone in these vehicles. All the MRAPs collecting dust in US motor pools and we can't give them a few?
Necessity is the mother of invention. The funding of the army is still bad but they need armored vehicles now, personally I don't think that such a stuff is a good choice. I have seen better models in the conflict.
ReplyDeleteLook like in every conflict forces create a "technicals", even in the last war in Iraq the Mighty US Army create couple of them on truck base.
DeleteYeah, but these ones look damn shamefully, Ukraine can make and makes modern technological vehicles, but this is something awful. It looks to me like a syrian style industry I mean homemade armored cars are being manufactured by rebels. I have seen also a truck with plates of steel and I have nothing against it, that's another matter.
DeleteWouldn't be a problem if the rebels capture the mraps, and give it to russians reverse engineering it?
ReplyDeleteI don't think these MRAPs can bring to someones secret or unique technologies.
DeleteMRAPS are realy no tech vehicles that can be built by just about anyone.
DeleteHow cute, Olive Drab Klown Kars.. wait. You were serious?
ReplyDeleteAre they really that hard up for vehicles? They look like they might be effective on a paint-ball course but I would hate to be one of the people that get ordered into the fray in one of these. I think your idea of sending all of our spare MRAPS is a good one. Get them out of the hands of domestic LEOs and off to where they can do some real good.
No, ukraine is just generally speaking a joke, its a joke country, I don't mean that in any derogatory or inflammatory manner, nor do I mean it as some offence or slant. But Ukraine is a joke, its a failed state, a non-country, its basically been economically stagnant since the partitioning of the USSR. Its an extremely poor country, riffe with corruption, and they are all socialists, I mean the Soviet union may have ended in the rest of the world, but it seems very much alive in Ukraine, whilst all the other former soviet union countries adopted capitalism and have been doing quiet well since then.
DeleteAnd its dubious whether or not they are a distinct ethnic group, I mean the land was settled by polish and russians, and occupied by russia for a very long time, they speak russian right?
What kind of rock do you live under? Is it a big rock? is there moss on top of it? fer chrissakes,
Deletethe issue with Ukraine is that it is the meeting of two different cultures: European Catholic as part of Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth and then the Austro-Hungarian Empire in North and Western Ukraine and the Orthodox Russian Empire in the East and South. In spite of the USSR existing for less than a century, the Western and Northern parts of Ukraine are not Russian nor do they consider themselves Russian.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/12/Ethnolingusitic_map_of_ukraine.png&w=480
Western and Northern Ukraine have been resisting Russians/Bolsheviks/Communists for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_after_the_Russian_Revolution
It is this European/Capitialist/Catholic Western Ukraine vs. Russian/Bolshevik/Orthodox/ Eastern Ukraine that has complicated the development of Ukraine's society and economy. The Western Ukrainians seek to rejoin Europe and a capitalist economy, the East seeks to rejoin Russian and collectivist/socialist economy.
A century, in terms of culture and civilizations, is but a blink of an eye and in spite of the USSR ruling over Ukraine, it didn't erase the culture that existed in the West prior to WWI.
To get back to the armored car, it is sign of how desperate and cash-strapped the country is. Heck, they are crowdsourcing their military. They are buying surplus British DPM/German Flecktarn uniforms and gear to outfit their soldiers. desperate they might be, but those in the West and North of Ukraine are also dedicated to an independent Ukraine that wants nothing to do with Russia and will do whatever it takes to keep themselves free.
The Austro-Hungarian empire occupied ukraine? That is something I have never off before, and in the north, by poland, wheras the polish-lithuanian commonwealth occupied the west, the part that borded austro-hungaria.
DeleteAnd the Western part of ukraine outnumbers the eastern part, right? That is howcome anti-russian politicians controll the country, unless you are suggesting that the portion of ukraine that identifies as russian, is electing people on purpose to be anti-themselves.
So then howcome these 'capitalists' are electing left-wing lunatics to continue keeping their country in poverty, like all the other most socialist countries in the world i.e. venuezala, cuba, north korea, various african countries. It doesn't make sense. If they grew some brains then they would reform to a capitalist system where their is incentive for economic development.
And these pro-capitalist peoples, are trying to join the socialist hegemony that is the EU, where most of its memebers are spending around half of the economy is comprised of the government, as opposed to russia, which has a flat income tax of 14%, low government expenditure as a proportion of GDP, very little regulation, and enjoys a hisotric growth rate of 6% on average, wheras european countries would be lucky to have a historic rate of 2-3% before fudged inflation data. And at the moment enjoy negative growth in real terms, they are getting poorer, because it turns out that socialism is actually a bad idea in every country it is tried in, and there countries are not speical countries, where the laws of economics do not apply.
In reality it was populated by polish and russian peoples, which in reality are both east slavic, so what is the diference really?
And regarding their financial position, they have plenty of money, they are having a financial dificulty because the government refuses to cut entitlements which were unsustainably high, and live within it's own means. It also fails to adequately ensure a reasonable proportion of GDP and state expenditure towards national security. Instead it uses that money on social programs. If it were to spend just 2.5% of its GDP on military (which is only slightly higher than NATO minimum) then it would have 4.5Bn USD which is more than enough to murder what it claims are it's own civilians. It doesn't because it has 'more imporant' things to spend its money on.
Couple of corrections Jacobite.
DeletePolish-Lithuanian Commonwealth did not occupy any part of Ukraine, the Ukraine or how it was called in that times The Wild Fields were PART of Commonwealth to the high level of integrity. For some time it was even called not Commonwealth of two nations but three nations. Poles, Lithuanians and Cossack's that were main group of Ukraine. The Commonwealth eastern territory's end on shore of Black Sea, the shore belt with Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate that was more or less in pernament state of war with Commonwealth. Almost whole modern day Ukraine was part of Commonwealth.
After Cossack's rebellions that were response to oppressive actions of local land lord's the Cossack's Hetmanat sign a treaty with Russia for protection. For some time they were independent but as many nations under "protection" of Russia they soon had been incorporated in to Empire. The Ukraine was not change to the times of Soviet Regime when enormous number of ethnic Ukrainians and Cossack's were murdered and starved to death by bolsheviks. After that the Russians start to "colonize" the Ukraine with ethnic Russians. That's why is so many of them there.
Poles are not east Slavs, the ancestors of them were west Slavs as the same ancestor group of Slovenians and Czechs. Russians ancestors were east Slavs. But after so many decades there are NO Slavs anymore. Every nation create own ethnic a culture circles that ware reshaped but internal and foreign influences. Poles are the most "pure" as they did not change too much to the times of partition. Russians are also not Slavs anymore as they were highly under Asian influence, the last time they have the right to call themselves a Slavs it was at the time of Muscovite Tsardome.
It's cool to say we are from the same ancestors, but that is not true anymore. Nations had change, cultures had change, peoples had change. There are no Slavs anymore. The same as we can say that we are all black's because humanity start it's road in Africa.
@ William James.
Deleteyep. sad but true. someone's son is going into combat in a vehicle that is less robust than my ancient Ford Bronco.
JacobiteNZ: Galicia and Lodemeria 1849-1918 were what Ukraine is now.
DeletePolish/Lithuanian commonwealth and a Principality of the medieval Rus.
If anyone looked closely 'armor' seems to be comprised of welded rebar (just about the softest steel you can find) and waffle type sheet metal . Hardly something that could stop a bullet from an AK let alone PK os SVD
ReplyDeleteHow much cost a decent steel plate?
DeleteAre they really fucked up this bad?
Geez, the local police department in Bumfuck Arkansas can get a hold of an MRAP for the price of delivery these days. Can't the Pentagon help their new-found allies out?
ReplyDeleteyou would think but this lets you knkow that the administration isn't serious about supporting Ukraine. we're giving those vehicles away yet all we're sending to the Kiev govt is MRE? pathetic!
DeleteWatch this video and ask yourself what the Ukrainians would do with our old MRAPs
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t26Ekz1DHz0&list=PLw613M86o5o7DfgzuUCd_PVwbOCDO472B&index=5
They have been ignored and criminally neglected for over a decade. They needs just basics: tents, sleeping bags/mats, uniforms, boots, optics. tactical vest, kevlar helmets
Hell, duct tape is a luxury for these poor bastards.
I don't think they could handle an influx of foreign MRAPS since they have no infrastructure or logistics for engines. transmissions, spares, etc.
Side note - I don't see how France will carry on with their sale of Mistral-class amphibs to Russia at this point. Won't be surprised to see this in the news in the next 2 weeks. Europe is collectively outraged, I think we'll see something happen this summer.
ReplyDeleteOh they will send them to Russia. Nothing change, no mater if EU citizens died or not... UK citizens died, Prime Minister speak in outrage manner and he propose... some sanctions (he can put them deep in his ass) Australia Prime Minister speak with bigger outrage... what he can do? nothing. Chancellor of Germany speak with moderate way as always and will do nothing. French president... say nothing, business is business and nothing against Russia (no French citizens died so who cares in France about that) . Netherlands prime minister speak with outrage and he want to... negotiate return of body's and send some specialist of air crashes.
DeleteUS speak with solid outrage and point at Russia... but they will also do nothing.
I start to believe that no mater if 300 EU citizens died or 3000, EU will do nothing against Russia. Maybe some ban for couple other persons that never leave Russia before that. They are all bunch of pussies on the knees before some NeoSoviet empire wanabee.
Sadly you could be right. Unfortunately Europe won't even commit 2% of the gdp's to defense, they complain about the US but continue to ride the US Military gravy train. Odd I know...
DeleteHey Shas, do you (or Sol for that matter) see any connection between this crash and the one in Smolensk a couple of years ago?
ReplyDeleteSo people pull out this, mainly the opposition party in Poland but they do anything to discredit Prime Minister. You know for them everything wrong on the world, everything that happen is fault of Prime Minister.
DeleteBut no, I don't see the connection. One was a accident and there is no reliable proof that it was something else. Second one is in this moment well documented shoot down of airplane in clear day by ground-air missile.
The only absurd thing are the words of President Putin. He say that Ukraine is responsible for crash of the plane because it crash on Ukraine territory. When I last check he say that it was that banana Republic of Donetsk territory but now... now it's again an Ukrainian territory. But to the meritum, it's Ukrainian territory it's Ukrainian fault... when Polish plane crash in Russia it was of course NOT Russia fault it was Poland fault.
Cheers, I'll put the tinfoil hat away.
DeleteSol,
ReplyDeleteYour comment on your Bronco brought about some chuckles. It would be too cool to have a whole squad of Broncos rigged-out Rat-Patrol style. Yeah Baby! Bring on those Rooskies!
Separatist just start to clean up the impact zone of airliner, this is fucking ridicules! They show a big middle finger to the whole world and world do fucking NOTHING!
ReplyDeleteI don't believe, I just don't believe in this shit!