Thanks to TheBronze for the info.
via Wikipedia.
I would pay good money to read the real directive. It does make sense though and if you watched the videos put out by those animals in ISIS then you can understand why I consider this the most humane thing a soldier can do for their brother.
Spare me the moralization and just re-watch those vids. Seeing a video emerge of an Israeli soldier getting his throat slit would topple a govt.
The purpose of the Hannibal directive is to prevent the abduction of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces even if thereby risking their life. Israeli soldiers are ordered to stop an abduction by force and to use any means available to this end. The controversial logic behind the order seems to be that a dead soldier is preferable to a captive. The Israeli daily Haaretz published the following formulation in 2003:"During an abduction, the major mission is to rescue our soldiers from the abductors even at the price of harming or wounding our soldiers. Light-arms fire is to be used in order to bring the abductors to the ground or to stop them. If the vehicle or the abductors do not stop, single-shot (sniper) fire should be aimed at them, deliberately, in order to hit the abductors, even if this means hitting our soldiers. In any event, everything will be done to stop the vehicle and not allow it to escape." [3]The order is considered top secret and its existence has often been denied by Israeli military authorities. The exact wording of the directive is not known and it has apparently been updated several times over the years.[citation needed]
I would pay good money to read the real directive. It does make sense though and if you watched the videos put out by those animals in ISIS then you can understand why I consider this the most humane thing a soldier can do for their brother.
Spare me the moralization and just re-watch those vids. Seeing a video emerge of an Israeli soldier getting his throat slit would topple a govt.
If the order is so secret, how are the rank and file going to implement it?
ReplyDeleteIf every soldier knows it, its hardly a secret.
Its certainly logical and I wouldnt find it hard to believe that the soldiers going in agree this with their mates hand.
That's why I would keep a grenade handy on my body. :(
ReplyDeletesorry for off, i think it's worth it (use google translate)
ReplyDeleteSiberia wants "out" :)
http://adevarul.ro/international/rusia/dupa-modelul-republicii-donetk-locuitorii-siberia-cer-federalizarea-moscova-incearca-inabuse-actiunea-1_53dced090d133766a8f28cd5/index.html
Some enemies in this world are so heinous it's better to save one round for yourself. Better to have yourself killed before being captured.
ReplyDeleteRecalling the Indian wars of the American west where men and women White, black and red would kill themselves or others to prevent the mass rape and torture deaths at the hands of their enemies.
Recalling also the Men shot and wounded by snipers in war then used as bait to draw in the Corpsmen and frantic fellow team mates for more slaughter, sometimes you have to walk away and leave them or kill them.
Total war with no boundaries makes this a sad commentary on the human race.
Right up there with using human shields and ammo dumps in hospitals and schools, bombing them becomes necessary.
Sol, that is not correct. Soon after the report of the possible abduction TV news reported that the Hannibal Directive was activated and the Air Force is targeting the immediate neighbourhood with 2000 lb bombs to prevent the transport of the body or the live soldier, even if it endangered his life. The ground forces also started scouring the neighbourhood, using infantry, tanks and artillery. This went on for a few hours after the 9.30 incident in which two soldiers were killed and about 12 wounded (TV news).
ReplyDeleteYesterday they showed on TV three motorcycles uncovered in a tunnel on the Northern end of Gaza, that Hamas planned to use to speedily transport a person (civilian or military) abducted from the neighbouring Kibbutz area. I think that is good planning, and it also shows how large some of these tunnels were (concrete walls and ceilings, electric lighting, telephone lines for internal communication, some almost 3 kms long).
There were 31 of these "attack" tunnels, and I think they found another one today.
In view of the high ransom Israel paid for the last abducted soldier (Gilad Shalit) - 1027 terrorists and convicted murderers were release from prison two years ago, it is worth doing Hannibal and not to have a repeat situation. The price has been escalating for the last 15 years, even for bodies of dead soldiers. That is why the IDF has the Hannibal Directive.
I feel the sorrow and the pain for every single soldier or civilian, but I concur with the rationale.
Hamas is a fanatic Islamic organisation. In 2007 the took over the Gaza Strip by military coup and systematically executed the PLO officials and policemen by throwing the off 17th.floor or shooting them in a line agaqinst a wall. It still haunts me-the Youtube video I saw on TV, proudly filmed by Hamas itself.
I did not watch the videos of ISIS showing throats cut and beheadings, but they are no different from Hamas, just a little more extreme.
well, it would be nice to get a "real" brief on the directive than know it exists but can't lay hands on a copy. quite honestly it would probably be wise to have a kill or rescue clause to the IDF's plans.
DeleteIDF is not the US Armed Forces ... We don't put everything to paper like you do, for example with the manual about "enhanced interrogation techniques" that was even approved by legal council to the President.
ReplyDeleteSo, my input on this is there is no Hannibal directive as such. There might be some operational guidance as to what to do in case of abduction, but that's hardly a directive in the sense of an US "executive order".
we don't put everything on paper like you do????
Deletewhat the fuck is that suppose to mean?
if you're talking about an operational directive to be followed by unit leaders then you damn well MUST put it in writing so that it can be carried out effectively. the IDF isn't some primitive organization that using word of mouth to pass on its history and legends.
the directive exists. its been acknowledged the only question i have is how far does it allow IDF soldiers to go to prevent a kidnapping.
It's supposed to mean that the legalistic approach that's is prominent in the US has found its way through all its organisations, including the military and its civilian leadership. Hence the reference to the "Bybee Memo" drafted by deputy assistant attorney general and signed by Legal Council of state Department. It's an American thing, put it all on paper even if it might turn out to be self incriminating at some point in time. Leaves the troops out of legal limbo, but pretty damn stupid in terms in tracability for those who might be incriminated.
DeleteBe that as it may, there is no Hannibal directive as such, contrary to what you have been led to believe Solomon. Besides, as has been observed earlier on, if it were such a secret operational directive it would not have stayed so secret for so long.
Again, there is no written memo or document stating what you're writing about. They may be a set of rules of engagement of kidnappers for example, or operational guidance to follow in case of abduction but there's no clear cut, two page thing called "Hannibal directive", at best it's a set of "standard procedures" that are not accessible to combat units and are only communicated orally when necessary. So, no, it wouldnt necessarily be put in writing to unit leaders, contrary to what you believe ! But I'm just guessing here. Your word is as good as mine on this issue.
Would like to add a word of caution regarding this topic: recent references to a so called "Hannibal Directive" have surfaced in a fair amount of anti-Israel news outlets and web sites, referencing this directive as the reason for bloodshed among Palestinian civilians (along the lines "IDF kills XXX Palestinian civilian as part of its hannibal directive to prevent capture of single soldier"). This is utter bullshit and sheer non-sense. So please let's be careful about this aspect of the discussion too ! The Middle East is like a court of Law, everything you say can and will be held against you. Let's not fall into this cheap propaganda trick !
ReplyDeleteI know Wikipedia is of limited use and reliability; but there is a Hebrew Wikipedia entry on Hannibal which I think is plausible and likely correct. http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/נוהל_חניבעל
ReplyDeleteThere are some good links at the end of that article, only one in English. Professor Kasher who wrote the IDF Ethical Code was on the radio clarifying some points about the so-called directive (nohal in Hebrew). It does not sanction killing the captured soldier, for instance. Yes, there have been such rumors.
In brief, we used the term Hannibal in the 80s and later as the code for a soldier being grabbed in the field. There have been a few such incidents over the years. Northern Command (where I spent most of my time) tried to alleviate the confusion regarding an appropriate immediate response by coming up with guidelines/directive. I recall how the hesitation was over whether or not to shoot the fleeing kidnap party, not knowing if the captured soldier might be hit. In any case, the initial 'directives' were local.
As several incidents have occurred over the years, the topic has been revisited many times all the way up to the General Staff level. There have been discussions and publications from philosophers and religious figures. So the guidelines certainly exist in some form. I don't personally know of any written, separate directives beyond a few lines saying that if a soldier is grabbed and the kidnappers are spotted, they are to be pursued vigorously including shooting to stop them. Prof. Kasher cited one such order (there are apparently different versions for some reason) "One should act as much as possible to stop the kidnap, including opening fire, but not in such a way as to bring about a high probability of killing the kidnapped soldier; all this with the understanding that the value of the kidnapped soldier's life is greater than the possible price of the kidnapping." (my translation from a newspaper article)
I saw on the Channel 2 Hebrew news, by the way, that a Lt. and his team immediately went into the tunnel in attempt to stop the kidnapping of Capt. Hadar Goldin. They also retrieved, apparently, some of the evidence used to declare his death. I don't know if that is an example of directives being carried out, or just a quick decision by a platoon leader on the ground.