I can't wait to see these weaponized. With modern precision attack munitions & air-air missiles I wonder why more countries aren't buying pocket fighters for homeland defense? With the enormous cost of the F-35, we probably will in the near future.
Sunday, August 17, 2014
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Once you start to add all the electronics, it will aproach the price of a Gripen C.
ReplyDeleteIndeed we do not know what the deal includes but 1bn$ for 30 jets is not bargain territory but still way under 3.5bn$ Swiss rejected for 22 Gripen NG
ReplyDeleteFor that kind of money, why not just buy the F-15E?
DeleteThe would spend so much money retunneling the mountain storage facilities to fit an F-15 that the cost of the F-15's would be a drop in the bucket relatively speaking. Boeing did not offer the F/A-18 Super Hornet for that same reason. Even folded they cannot pass the choke points.
DeleteDepends what package includes I am certain that once you put an F15 deal on the table you are talking much more $ ,Saudi buy of 84 F15SA + modernisation of 70 lod ones was in region of 30Bn $ but as the cotract was cost+ there were lots off add on contracts for just about every item mounted on the plane and upgraded into old ones. So we can only speculate of the total cost but F15 was never very competitive on price.
DeleteGood point Harlan, the Gripen is quite a bit smaller than everything else available.
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T, I was talking about the E version. Which runs somewhere around $30-35M per plane. Silent Eagle is/was going to be roughly triple that.
35Mio $ doesn't buy you an F16 (36 F16Block 52 to Iraq cost 4.2bn $) let alone a F15
DeleteWe paid $116M each for some F16's? Are you serious? The F22 was only around $120M a copy.
DeleteYep.
DeleteBut if you noticed F22 broke the bank and cost is hard to point out it might be As little as $137 million per jet(cost of the last planes delivered) or as much as $678 million, depending on how and what you count. 79bn$ got you 187 planes that still need billions in upgrades
Plus consider these foreign contracts also cover training ,simulators ,spare parts .whithout these things planes can't operate ,on the other hand US taxpayer is being played so F35 cost presented now is minus engine ,yes that is right airplane without engine let alone parts and other stuff.
''In 2012, Lockheed has been awarded ten contracts for LRIP Lot 5, with total value of 5,876 billion USD for 32 aircraft; thus per-unit airframe cost is 183,6 million USD. This, however, does not include the engine; engine for F-35A costs 38,4 million USD, which makes unit flyaway cost of 222 million USD for Lot 5. Lot 4 aircraft cost 179,2 million USD without the engine, with engine adding 39,4 million USD; unit flyaway cost is thus 218,6 million USD per aircraft.''
Interestingly Russians tested their version the Yak130 (in service now also in Syria) to replace Su-25 attack jets but tests revealed that plane is way too vunerable for that ,of course that is for the russian stye CAS which is really close in guns blazing and unguided rocket salvos . For dropping laser guided bombs from standoff ranges you can use a turboprop cargo plane. Protection form AAA and MANPADS not needed.
ReplyDeleteI believe the Syrians did not received they're Yak-130s, and if they had they probably would not be in a hurry to use them in combat. Historically heavily modified light attack jets based on trainers are not well received, look at the Hawk 200.
ReplyDeleteIf they use trainers in combat its because the opponent has no serious air defense, or the air force just does not have enough aircraft and has to use all its got ( look at the 6 day war when israelis used Fouga Magister until now the L-39 in Syria )
About the M-346, if they had to add a radar, targeting pod, RWR/ECM a MAWS and Chaff and Flare ( because we all see what is happening in Ukraine MiG-29 and Su-25 getting shot down form legacy MANPADS ) . The price will go pretty much up so i guess no western or rich military aviation won't consider it a option .
For the others there is the "father" of the M-346 the Yak-130 witch has already integrated weapons and is cheaper.
And if you want to go supersonic you might as well get the L-15 witch "strangely" resembles the Yak-130 :)
Flares work against old MANPADs and AA missiles ,meanwhile new gen seekers already see an actual aircraft picture so are indiffrent to flares. That is why modern close in AA are considered near 100% success rate.While Radar guided missiles are still way of and operationaly barely above 50% hit rate.
ReplyDeleteL-15 has been developed with russian help and design used Jak130 as the base. Preformance envelope is not much bigger than either Yak130 or M-346 it just offers more speed and some more climbrate.
You all seem to forget that the M-346 was purchased for the specific purpose of TRAINING new pilots how to fly advanced jet planes, replacing the venerable Douglas A-4N as advanced trainer. You do not use trainee pilots in trainer aircraft to perform operational flights. There are plenty of experienced pilots in operational aircraft eager to perform the task. In tactical situations no air force will consider such questions as cost of flight hours or fuel consumption; only the job on hand and the best way to accomplish the mission.
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