Thanks for the link Joe.
via Yahoo
Israel attacks Hamas locations in Gaza and the UN yells war crimes from the roof tops, the US SecState says that its intolerable, and moralist in Europe talk about the humanitarian crisis.
Meanwhile....in Europe the Ukrainian govt is shelling a city, cutting off its inhabitants and no one says a thing.
This is far from over. Remember the R2P doctrine? The Ukrainian govt can legally be called into question for shelling civilians AND starving a city.
I hope they aren't celebrating in Kiev. They've given the Russians the perfect, legal excuse to send an armored column with food and water to rescue the inhabitants of that city.
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| What tank is this? If I didn't know better I'd think it was an IS3! |
"We're afraid of the Ukrainian army, which is firing on the city, and of the rebels of the Donetsk People's Republic, who are robbing and killing civilians," said Dmitry Andronov, a 47-year-old resident.Read the entire story by following the link.
Zakharchenko's statement that the city was surrounded came hours after the rebels' top commander said Ukrainian forces had seized a key town, Krasnyi Luch, effectively cutting Donetsk and nearby territory off from the rest of the rebel-held east.
Israel attacks Hamas locations in Gaza and the UN yells war crimes from the roof tops, the US SecState says that its intolerable, and moralist in Europe talk about the humanitarian crisis.
Meanwhile....in Europe the Ukrainian govt is shelling a city, cutting off its inhabitants and no one says a thing.
This is far from over. Remember the R2P doctrine? The Ukrainian govt can legally be called into question for shelling civilians AND starving a city.
I hope they aren't celebrating in Kiev. They've given the Russians the perfect, legal excuse to send an armored column with food and water to rescue the inhabitants of that city.
IS-3. It was on a pedastal as a war monument when the rebels got it back up and running.
ReplyDeleteThen they got into combat and it broke down, then the Ukrainians towed it back and it's a trophy.
I wonder if the EU will still support Ukraine once it cuts any energy transfers in it's territory from Russia to western Europe like it's threatening to do.
ReplyDeleteAnd you make a very good point about R2P... Obama flaunts international law everywhere, but apparently forgot about that doctrine.
DeleteIt is only "legal" when the US does it. Anybody else it is an invasion, support of terrorists, just furthering their own dastardly aims, money, bigotry, Saturday morning cartoon villainy, and never ever justified!
DeleteWhat the chattering classes have to understand is that there is no such thing as law between states as there is law in a state that governs citizens (and legal entities). Once there is an overarching organisation that can act upon a state it will be cease to be sovereign and so ceases to be a state. History is littered with treaties and conventions that states have signed up to but have dumped as soon as it became inconvenient. The trouble with R2P it is even a treaty or (written) convention just a Western political concept. Our elites ignore borders to suit themselves, woe betide anybody outside the West who does similar.
What should have some standing and something that is overlooked is that Russia is one of the P5 supposedly the club of world policeman, Surely if the UN has any credibility we would expect Russia to act in humanitarian way if it can reach a state or people in trouble? As Sol says the Russians surely have as much "legal" right to relieve that siege as the Americans had to liberate Kuwait, invade Grenada, invade Panama, or whatever.
in Europe the Ukrainian govt is shelling a city, cutting off its inhabitants and no one says a thing.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they also crucify children as it was said on the First channel in RF. You shouldn't worry about it, because russian channels and their pro-russian ones talk about abysmal war crimes on everyday basis. They don't condemn their allies as well. For example you can't find criticism related to the Protective edge operation on russian channels at all by reason of Israel is a friendly state to Russia. These bastards so-called rebels are just surrounded and now they play a role poor defenders of civilians against the bloodthirsty regime.
Sol, you are pissed off at the yells in the west about the Israel's actions, I am pissed off at the russian media which yell only about crimes of Kiev every day.
Deleteeveryone has a perspective and i've tried to steer clear of the politics of the thing....but one thing can't be debated. R2P is giving the Russians an excuse to get into eastern Ukraine.
DeleteOk, but to protect from whom? Russia says that the ukrainian forces purposely destroy buildings and exterminate civilians (like punishers), but do you believe it? That's the same thing if I said IDF specially kill palestinians and it's a priority mission (to kill unarmed people). I think this doesn't make the sense.
Deleteyour argument breaks down on several points...
Delete1. Hamas has fired rockets at civilian targets in Israel. If thats legal (and it must be because Hamas supporters tend to ignore that part of the story), then its certainly legal to return fire at those doing the firing. the fact that Hamas sets up sites in schools, mosques and hospitals matters little. you're shooting at the weapon system..
2. The right to protect means that you're going into a country to do what its soveriegn govt refuses to do. in the case of a mythical Russian invasion of Ukraine it would be to protect citizens from a govt that is shelling a city.
Last but not least i'm not trying to dig into the politics. i don't know enough about the issues. what i can do is to examine the situation from the outside and make a determination about whether an armored convoy designed to bring relief supplies to a city would meet international law.
from where i'm sitting the Russians would well be within there rights to do so.
tell me without any added emotion, where i'm wrong in that assessment.
it's different conflicts, the rebels didn't fire rockets however they can be classified like illegal armed groups, the same groups were in Chechnya and they were destroyed. Just image that near your home strangers with weapons appear and try to take control over government and administration buildings, they walk with small arms and seize military units and objects. That's a revolution i.e. violently overthrow the government and under the law of states such actions are illegal. If someone wants to be free and independent from a state, he has a possibility to do it with peace way through demonstrations, votes and so on. Of course if a state gives such a possibility.
DeleteThe actions Hamas does are terrorism. At least you don't think that ukraine government forces shell the civilians specially like Hamas, don't you? I know there are many destroyed and damaged buildings but any war is destruction of buildings and casualties among civilians. Especially when your army stayed in eighties.
Sorry for emotions. It's just because of this war thar is also my tragedy and I actually tired of it.
When you spoke about chechnya, you make a point for solomon : everybody screamed war crime to UN ! The zone was entierely isolated by russia, that's why nobdy could make something
Deletefabsther, yes, that war in Chechnya had been very intensive with strong collateral damages. A part of the city of Grozny had been ruined.
Deletehttp://www.break.com/video/busted-russia-caught-filming-propaganda-in-crimea-2746161
ReplyDeleteGuys, who is interested in a map of the operation and a position of the frontline, I have found one with geographical designations duplicated in English.
ReplyDeleteLook here: http://burkonews.info/
red marks''Terrorists and Russian forces'' LOL.how close to reality do you think these maps get.
DeleteI think the map is quite close to reality, if you are confused with these red markers from side of the russian border just ignore it. As far I understand these are some convoys with supplies and reinforcements.
DeleteAnd probably they also designate the grad's fire according to the Ukraine side.
DeleteHey,anyone can confirm this?
ReplyDeletehttp://ukrainewarlog.blogspot.com.br/2014/08/russian-soldiers-commit-torture-war.html?spref=tw&m=1
Jesus Christ...
DeleteThat rebel with an yellow glasses got a quite famous person...
DeleteYes they pulled a tank out of a museum. Ain't she a beaut?
ReplyDelete