via War Is Boring.
I just don't know. What I do know is that civilian leadership emphasized the missile threat at the start of the hostilities and that it switched to tunnels later.
I do know that while the rocket fire was harassing, the threat from the tunnels actually took Israeli lives. Additionally I read a story where they had to get people from their Engineer school house to actually deal with the threat instead of having people in units that were capable of handling it out in the respective units.
Intel didn't reach the man at the sharp end of the spear....not talking about the Special Ops units, but the Infantry and Armor battalions that were hooking and jabbin with HAMAS.
This is a troubling story. But if true it just means that the IDF has more in common with the US military than even I imagined.
The spy services discovered dozens of fresh tunnels last year, and their reports “were disseminated to the prime minister, defense minister and the heads of the security services,” Harel writes. “Thus when the war began, the army knew with relative accuracy where all the tunnels were located.”Read the entire article.
But here lies one of the Military Directorate’s main beefs with the government, according to Haaretz. The government was aware of the tunnels, but never bothered to prepare.
In July, as the conflict spiraled into a series of mutual escalations after the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teens in the West Bank, and as the Israeli government rationalized the tunnel threat after the conflict had already escalated, it sent IDF troops into an ill-fated operation they hadn’t planned, trained or equipped for.
Israeli troops stayed in Gaza for weeks, vulnerable to Hamas ambushes despite statements from Israeli officials that destroying the tunnels would take “days,” as Israeli defense minister Moshe Ya’alon said on July 20.
The death toll continued to rise to the worst loss of Israeli life since the 2006 war with Hezbollah. “In the end, the IDF had to get help from civilian companies, and the tunnels were mainly destroyed via a series of improvisations,” Harel notes.
I just don't know. What I do know is that civilian leadership emphasized the missile threat at the start of the hostilities and that it switched to tunnels later.
I do know that while the rocket fire was harassing, the threat from the tunnels actually took Israeli lives. Additionally I read a story where they had to get people from their Engineer school house to actually deal with the threat instead of having people in units that were capable of handling it out in the respective units.
Intel didn't reach the man at the sharp end of the spear....not talking about the Special Ops units, but the Infantry and Armor battalions that were hooking and jabbin with HAMAS.
This is a troubling story. But if true it just means that the IDF has more in common with the US military than even I imagined.
Solomon:
ReplyDeleteI know this is off topic but I could not resist.
I know you like tanks, here's a video about an hour Donbass - Ukraine.
It is a wake, there is no translation, the video is one hour from 29 minutes scenes strong, very strong.
I'm watching that moment in the 38th minute and remembered you.
Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgMOOta3r6Y#t=1966
Proftel
I think that regarding tunnels, their leadership in the military as well as civilian along with everyone else just did not forsee how effective these tunnels would turn out to be till it was too late and diabolical acts were committed using these tunnels as a medium. But thats just what i think. We need some Israeli viewers here to give their perspective.
ReplyDeleteThey were pretty competant when it came to dealing with repeated missile threats. The tunnel threat i guess just slipped through a crack till it was too late.
even if they knew about the tunnel strategy by hamas, how can IDF identify their location without resorting to humint assets in gaza ? can technology alone detect these tunnel openings ? how about using trained dogs ? at certain points, you cannot be prepared against every possible way enemy can hurt you, 80-20 rule and all that..
ReplyDeleteone can imagine the IDF losses if their enemy have parity in numbers and technology and fighting spirit.. i dont know, is the current Israeli soldiers less motivated than the previous generations ? maybe living for so long under relative peace also have negative impact on Israeli's youth..
I watched some videos on youtube about these tunnels.
ReplyDeleteThe thing seemed very uptight, you do not build those tunnels with concrete walls and concrete arches above without anyone noticing, above, where the pieces are drying apparently is all precast.
In fact, I believe they are trading tunnels to circumvent the confiscation of goods between Israeli territory and that concentration camp called Gaza.
It may be that they have been constructed from Israel to Gaza, will ningém think about it?
I believe it is not far the day that someone will say - Just !.
Henceforth all men will know that the chosen people are only recorded in the Old Testament.
After Christ, we are all equal before God, is what I believe.
What kills is not religion, it is money and greed.
For my part, I'm tired of being cannon fodder.
These guys fuck them.
Sorry but pimps and hard terms, that is.
:-)
Can you please translate this so we understand what you are trying to say here? It sounds complete and disjointed gibberish..........
DeleteIn plain English please (or any other real language for that matter) ?!!
DeleteI use Google Translate in Chrome browser.
DeleteYou could try this technology.
I understand perfectly what you write and think.
Aside from Mandarin and other oriental languages, it works very well.
Anyway, a tip you about Ukraine:
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/2014/09/05/
Kind regards.
Proftel.
I learnt many years ago, that you can not fathom the real happenings until years later, when the truth is published. You can not rely on the news published in newspapers or TV. as one conflicting piece follows the other confusing all issues.
ReplyDeleteThe public appearances and statements of politicians are full of lies and self serving propaganda.
There is a certain vague feeling that something did not develop right, as the Israeli conduct of the war relied on fire, without decisive manouver. Wars are decided by manouver and fire only serves the defense as a war of attrition.
The attrition certainly effected mainly the Palestinian side with tremendous damages and lots of casualties, but it did not break their spirit and will to resist. The IDF seems to have carried out its limited tasks well, although there seemed to be some operational and tactical mistakes (which we hear very little about), and some casualties (some 60 killed and about 450 wounded), which seem minimal for a 40 day ground operation.
What is glaringly missing in all this war is the lack of strategic policy given to the Army and the lack of initiative and surprise and deception in the ground activity. It all seemed more suited to the frontal battles of the First World War.
Perhaps the built-up nature of the battlefield dictated this action (going for a decision in the built-up areas would have exacted far greater casualties and was not considered worth while. Israel is very sensitive to casualties and not having a clear cut strategic target precluded further decisive action. There is also the international background, local political arena, and the PR war, and the unusually long duration of the fighting that have to be taken into account.
It all left a lot of people with a feeling of dissatisfaction and a strong suspicion that it not over. Add to this the evolving situation on the Northern borders with Syria and Lebanon and the dangers and shaky regime in Jordan.
Perhaps we don't know all the answers.
Hey Solomon. Kievian forces way of delivering humanitarian aid to the people.
ReplyDeletehttps://pp.vk.me/c616330/v616330850/18d0c/E_hpfIGD14s.jpg
If there was any question who the bad guy here is. I think this settles it.
In a word, yes. They've been putting money down on F35 and put Namer APCs on the backburner. Now, they pulled their heads out of their asses and are buying more Namers like they should have.
ReplyDeleteAnd quite frankly, as much as the IDF wants to fight a battle with Merkavas and Namers, etc., to avoid casualties, sometimes they need good old fashioned footmobile infantry and combat engineers.
The Israeli's might need to specialize units for certain terror groups rather than sticking generalist conscripts and reservists into confusing situations without the right intel and equipment. Perhaps a brigade devoted solely to Gaza/Hamas that has permanent battalions and reservists units that rotate in and out, know the geographic and human terrain backwards and forwards, can spot changes, etc. lot's heavy APCs, combat engineers, drones, etc.
Paralus, you are quite right. The whole thing rings the bell just as the Second Lebanon War. At that time the Army was saving on training, maintenance, and a whole list of other things. Now it is a similar story.
DeleteWhat pisses me off is that they again waited too long to start the ground operation, giving Hamas time to prepare booby traps and get everybody into bunkers, etc. Secondly, the strategic aims are vague and the tactical targets too limited. There was no maneuver and too cautious forward movement. The political declarations were not good psychology for the middle East - saying that the Hamas will not be destroyed, so they could feel confident that after a little pounding they will come out in one piece. This strengthened their resolve. This lack of decisive action will cost more in the long run, and you can be sure it is not the end. ISIL and JN in Syria and Sinai will spill over as well and Hamas will exploit that.
Wait for round number 4.........
wait for round #4.... exactly. This falls under rumors and lies, but I read that Hamas lost less than 200 personnel out of 700-1000 that were in Gaza. On the other side, Israel spent 3+ bn $ for this and is now cutting back the budget for education and medical care with good old US of A contributing for the last bn $ to keep the show going.
ReplyDeleteSo, when the dust settles, the whole cycle is going to restart again.
Well Zdravko, Hamas has about 15-20,000 fighters and they lost about 1000 in the war, which is not debilitating. It is painful, but there are lots of new willing recruits.
ReplyDeleteThe civilian deaths are about 1200 and that is regrettable and unintended. The destruction is immense, with about 10,000 (!) buildings damaged or destroyed.
You have to remember, that it was Hamas that started this war by firing rockets at cities and kibbutzes; at civilians and not Army targets. Also, when Israel was willing after 10 days to stop the fighting, Hamas broke the truce a few times, which added to the senseless destruction. It is clearly their fault.
As to the Israeli economy: it is still strong and will quickly recover and continue to flourish. This is the only country in the Middle East that is not depending on oil for the national income. It continues to invent and export high tech and agricultural products. The Army will draw the right conclusions from the war and will come out stronger than before. It is the political structure that needs to be revamped, and instead of a shaky coalition a clear leading party needs to be in power. But it will not happen too soon. However, the country is strong and is becoming stronger.
Peace, Brother!
agreed. thats why i made the comparison to US forces. we win the battles and eventually the wars but it always seems that mistakes are made and the people that need the intel never get it.
Deletebut the Israeli economy is strong, the society modern and the leadership moderate (a bit too liberal for my tastes but at least its democratically elected). HAMAS can't say any of that. they breed like rabbits, have ignored or refused every chance at statehood thats been offered, conduct themselves in a manner that forces their own citizens to suffer and are poor administrators on top of all that.
LASTLY THE BASTARDS ARE TERRORISTS SCUM.
the IDF like the USMC might be going through a rough patch (Amos is gone NEXT MONTH!!) but like the Marines always win in the end.
Semper Fi
ReplyDelete