Thanks for the link Jason!
via Yahoo
We have entered a world of shadows and greys.
Up is down, down is up and we're being subjected to intensive information warfare from both sides. American Mercenary wrote a great primer on propaganda ops and I recommend you read it. We're being bombed on all sides and all open source information on conflicts is suspect. I think the source of the information tells more than the information itself.
via Yahoo
Late last month Yelena Tumanova was handed the body of her son in a coffin at her home in Russia's Western Volga region. Anton Tumanov was 20 and a soldier serving in the Russian army in the North Caucasus region of Chechnya.I just don't know.
The documents Yelena Tumanova was given with the body raised more questions than they answered - questions about how her son died and about the Russian government’s denials that its troops are in Ukraine. The records do not show Anton Tumanov’s place of death, said human rights activists who spoke to his mother after she got in touch with them.
"Medical documents said there were shrapnel wounds, that is he died from a loss of blood, but how it happened and where were not indicated,” said Sergei Krivenko, who heads a commission on military affairs on Russia’s presidential human rights council.
Yelena Tumanova could not be reached for comment and Reuters was unable to review the documents. But more than 10 soldiers in her dead son’s unit told Krivenko and Ella Polyakova, another member of the presidential human rights council, that Anton Tumanov died in an Aug. 13 battle near the Ukrainian town of Snizhnye. The battle, the soldiers said, killed more than 100 Russian soldiers serving in the 18th motorized rifle brigade of military unit 27777, which is based outside the Chechen capital of Grozny..
We have entered a world of shadows and greys.
Up is down, down is up and we're being subjected to intensive information warfare from both sides. American Mercenary wrote a great primer on propaganda ops and I recommend you read it. We're being bombed on all sides and all open source information on conflicts is suspect. I think the source of the information tells more than the information itself.
The memory of massive Cargo 200 transports from times of Afgan and Chechen wars are still fresh in minds of Russians. Not even the massive glorious victories propaganda machine will not suppress it. Most Russians don't give a fuck about Georgia or Ukraine, but when young boys start to come home in body bags, well the bad memories start to appear in day light.
ReplyDeleteThe Russian gov. try to hide that, lie, threaten people, beat up the ones who try to gather more info. But at the end, this info is spread and the biggest enemy of gov. will be not delusion rotten and evil "westerners" but own people.
The only ones who are lying and doing their fucking stick as usual are the left wing " intelligentsia" as always. Like i said see the mothers committee report that the head of the committee tried to spin as results of battles in Ukraine despite same number of people died or got wounded in the Russian military previous years prior. Are there Russian in Ukraine, yes. . But they are all of volunteers. some active soldies using their vacation time to assist the Seps or former millatery men. How many there are is up to the question but so far there is no indication at all they are 100 of body bags returning.
DeleteAlso i love this article.
`Rolan, the serviceman who fought alongside Tumanov in Snizhnye, says he spent 10 days fighting in Ukraine in the middle of August. Back home in the Krasnodar region, he said his commanders offered soldiers the option to go to Ukraine. The men could refuse, but the commanders were very supportive of those who agreed. Rolan went, he said, because of his military oath and to protect Russian-speakers from Ukrainian forces, routinely referred to as fascists, in Russia.`
Uh huh a Russian soldier named Rolan.
Well I worked with pure blood Russian, from father, grandfather his family live in Nizhny Novgorod and his name was Gregor. So yeah, I have no problem believing that some other Russian can be named Rolan.
DeleteWell, you can say what you want, but it's weird that fresh conscripts using vacations... conscripts don't have vacations. They have short leaves for couple of days max. But of course you can believe in whatever you want.
I presume this article taken fron Routers is also lies... rights?
Btw: I start to see some universal pattern... first version was that there is no Russians there, now it's that they are volunteers and soldiers on vacation... if we take the same patter like in Crimea (No soldiers, self defense... oh right, those men... yea there were soldiers) then after this will end it will be official info that... oh yeah, those dudes... yeah they were military.
In Crimea guy came with standar Russian army issue gear and outfits not some rag tag colection of soviet era gear.
DeleteOne thing that baffles me is incompetence of western intelligence services ,it seems that they are onyl good for wire taping peoples phones and going trough their web history. If they had any solid proof or anything close to that you would be seeing it 24/7 on media front pages instead the best they can muster seem to be stories on the social media.
Some have old equipment, some very modern... some very exclusive to Russian Armed Forces modern. And The situation on Crimea was play in different way, different tac. But infusion of forces was denied whole time... even if it was obvious they are from Russian army you receive excuse in form of "they buy that in survival shop".
DeleteI say that once and I will say that again, today kid with smartphone and camera is better intelligence source then all those "intelligence" agency's combine.
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DeleteNobody said there are no Russians there. And certainly not me. What we said is that the Russian armed forces haven't mobilized and invaded Ukraine. Big fucking difference. Who's talking about conscripts ? And why would Russian send conscripts even ? If they have spetsnaz that can be sent who are more suited for such action as you are accusing Russia off ?
Delete@Most Russians don't give a fuck about Georgia or Ukraine@
Deleteany statistic data to prove?
@home in body bags, well the bad memories start to appear in day light. @
Thousands young Russians die every year because drug-traffic from Afghanistan covered by NATO (including Poland) countries. But poison us like Chinese empire several hundreds ago was not enough. Georgia was used as supply and support center to anti- Russian terrorism and separatism. Now Georgia is kicked, divided and calm. But the next stage of the drama – Georgia II in the person of Ukraine with their dozen million population. The West organized anti-russian Nazi riot (Poland was VERY active) – and it is obvious against Russia and it will cost us thousands of lives. But anyway what is proposal, pan Shas? To lie and spread legs? But “lucky” possibility to do unqualified job for old Europe is reserved for Polish and Baltic, to do unqualified job for Polish is reserved for Bulgarian, western Ukrainian, Moldavian. For Russians remains only death. Or fight.
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ReplyDeleteSolomon:
ReplyDeleteInteresting information here:
http://slavyangrad.org/
:-)
Story if true ,actually refutes claims of Russian regular army units fighting in ukraine ,as it one thing to have individuals 'there on paid leave' to fight with the Rebels and another to have actual units deploy with complete gear in Ukraine.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that Robert sugests is that Russian military has very high number of deaths even in peacetime(most due to hazing but also accidents and 'operations' in chechnya) so you qould need more than a dozen dead to prove anything.
No, it doesn't Mr. T. The existence of one doesn't logically disprove or prove the existence of the other. It's entirely possible for there to be units of Russians as well as Russian units.
Deleteregular units, units of regulars, units of Russian, units of pro-Russian Ukrainians, Georgians, Ossetians, volunteers from all over the place are in south east Ukraine.
Getting a bunch of soldiers to take an extended leave, serve in ad hoc units, then pull back isn't that far fetched. Promotions, cash, reduced service obligation are all easy enticements to serve.
Plus, it is entirely reasonable for there to be sub-units like squads and platoons from battalion-sized units that could be volunteering together and then rolled into large company-size formations that are equipped and sent over the border to fight in Ukraine
India has also experienced this type of Warfare and these types of situations, the Latest being the Kargil Incident in 1998. The incursion force consisted of both Paki regulars and the usual Jihadi element. Paki troops were sent in dressed as civilians and advised to leave behind their ration cards, army ID cards, Drivers Licences and all paperwork which could trace their origin. Some headed, some did not.
ReplyDeleteOnce you capture one, it doesnt take a genious to figure out a regular soldier from an irregular and even trace their approximate region depending on their accents and displayed behaviour.
I wonder how many if any Russians have been captured by the Ukrainians. The most humiliating scenes for the Pakistanis were when they were accepting back dead bodies and prisoners under the watchfull eyes of cameras and red cross and UN while their "top brass" was shouting that Paki Army wasnt involved. To have your low to mid level officer corps attend such body/prisoner hand overs with your Generals and High Command still spouting shit. And then they go and make the creator of this "Idiots Incursion" the President of Pakistan and a "democratic dictator".
Any professional Army should have court martialled Musharaf rather than make him Chief of Army Staff.