Timothy Nichols sent me a little snarky note about me not liking the outcome of the vote in Scotland. I really don't care, I didn't make a prediction...but it would have been fun to watch the UK go ape shit.
Before you go ballistic, let me explain.
What you saw in Scotland is simply a "gentle" separatist movement. We saw a re-run of Ukraine with people that don't have the ability to violently resist...or more precisely don't have the desire. But its still ominous because while people like Timothy believe that this issue is done, I want to remind you of something said by UK Armed Forces Commentary Blog...
Even if the no wins, as i hope, it looks like it will be with a small majority from what i see, and this is still bad news. It is painful to see Scotland in this state, and so divided and eager to get out. Moreover, such a tight margin is a source of enduring uncertainty: will we go through a whole new drama in a few years time? How will this issue evolve? A break up would be a disaster, but the "neverendum" scenario that already some fear would be just as bad and in some ways worse.Welcome to the "neverendum"...all the people in the UK that are patting themselves on the back this morning are missing the point.
A large part of your kingdom is pissed off.
Additionally the end results will probably be the same. You don't think that planning will stop for moving the nuclear missile sub base to Britain? You don't think that the UK will turn inward? You don't think that they've been diminished on the world stage?
The UK dodged a bullet but rarely is there just one round in a magazine.
The UK indeed doge the bullet, the central gov. probably shit there pants to the last moment.
ReplyDeleteFor Scotland it's win - win situation. Even if they will be not full independent then they scare the shit from politicians in London. I bet that now they will get more cash, more Scotland targeted decisions, even higher level of autonomy. They will do everything to improve relations because UK indeed dodge that bullet by mm.
i've never studied insurgency's or how they start but i would bet that this is part of the issue. you say Scotland will see more targeted aid? i say they won't. everyone is ignoring the flip side of this coin.
DeleteEngland! they will resent every penny that is sent north. they will be resentful because the Scots wanted out. the UK military WILL HAVE to start worse case scenario planning.
they're in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. what happens if you invest alot of money in Scotland and in a couple of years they vote to leave? what happens if you don't invest and they leave because you didn't!
the UK is proper fucked!
By and large its a win win for the entirety of the UK, deep governmental reform and devolution has been something that the people have wanted for a long time and the Scottish vote has forced Westminster for a brief moment to see itself through the eyes of the people. and if it follows through with the various promises it has made, such as devolving more powers to the individual nations of the Union and finding a Resolution to the West Lothian question then things will improve significantly.
DeleteWill there be people in Scotland unhappy about the result? of course there will, there was always going to be no matter what the result. and yes they will probably try again in the future but if Westminster keeps its promises the support for another referendum will be somewhat diminished. Governments don't like learning from their mistakes but they are capable of it if you make your point loud enough which the Scottish most certainly have.
The moving of the deterrent is now a non issue, if it does happen it can happen gradually and without panic and moving it south would have the added benefit of improving protection from Russian intelligence gathering activities. But that's if it happens at all which it probably wont, why spend money when you don't have to.
Those are the two scenarios of the future Sol'
DeleteFirst as I said the UK will try to be good as they can to Scotland region to hold those for NO voters and rise more of them in the future.
Second is as you said, they will do a "scorched earth" politics and try to squeeze every penny from them they will only put more of NO into YES.
Not to many have the second chance, UK receive one right now. We will see if they will waste it.
name one government on the face of the earth that actually followed the will of the people WITHOUT a revolution? i find it funny that the UK would be ignorant of this fact.
Deleteyou've already been through this with your colonial period. even looking at US history before the revolutionary war there was an attempt by the Royalty to placate the colonist but to no avail. and remember well that less than 10% of the people were actually involved in the revolution.
the same thing applies to Scotland. you're happy that the majority didn't vote for separation. i say that all it takes is more than 1% and you can have major league trouble.
THE UK WILL GET BIT IN THE ASS BY NORMALCY BIAS. PEOPLE WILL THINK THAT EVERYTHING CAN GO BACK TO NORMAL BECAUSE THAT'S THE EASY WAY. SCOTS WILL WANT THINGS TO CHANGE---AND THEY WON'T. THE UK IS STILL FACING PAIN.
The British and Scottish governments just held a Referendum on whether Scotland should become an independent country and left it in the hands of the Scottish people.
Deletei think that falls rather nicely into the field of "Following the will of the people"
Will Westminster capitalize upon the result and go through with what has been promised?, only time will tell but there's no point in doomsaying just yet.
read your history.
Deletehow many people agitated for a revolution in the US against Britain? how many in Ukraine wanted to break away? how many Egyptians wanted the dictator overthrown? same in Libya.
my point is simple. yeah they had a vote but so called "civilized" man always underestimate the power of "determined" men..."men of action" and not talk...men who bear grudges, feel slights and feel as if they're being oppressed.
civilized men always hide behind words and laws when warriors, barbarians, criminals and thieves show up. those type of men don't give a fuck about words, laws etc....and that's what the UK is facing now. just how many "men of action" exist in Scotland and are ready to act?
Sol' Scots vote, they did not take arms and shoot everyone who say NO on the streets. There is no burning tiers there, looted shops... Scots act like a civilized society. The criminal or radical elements did not start the bloodbath because the more people say NO then YES.
DeleteScots show that they care about own land and people, even if they are still in UK they show that they are not some lunatics nationalists and pillagers.
There won't be an uprising, it isn't a large part of the kingdom, 1.6 million Scots voted for Independence even if a full 1% of that number feel strongly enough to cause a civil disturbance(highly unlikely) it won't progress beyond rioting and vandalism.
DeleteThankfully no matter how much you want things to go to shit it isn't going to happen.
@Mist.
Deleteyou don't understand the brutality of man. you don't understand how just a few can alter the course of history...even in the modern era. if you have a platoon of madmen in Scotland you can see violence. but even more than that i believe that you don't understand the Scots that voted to separate from the UK. those grievances will come back to bite the UK in the ass.
AND I CAN"T WAIT!
I understand perfectly the brutality of humanity the difference is that i understand that no one is realistically going to try to overthrow the Scottish government and "declare" independence from the UK they will grumble, bitch and moan but that's about it.
DeleteThe child like glee with which you talk of a "potential" civil uprising and the chaos that comes with it in the UK is quite frankly disturbing.
And in a few weeks/months when it hasn't happened and you have returned to moaning about some other bullshit in some other country(most likely your own) I will be more then happy to update you about the status of the anarchy that you so desire and remind you that like with so many things, you were and always will be wrong.
AND I CAN"T WAIT!
you read but you don't comprehend. additionally you're taking solace in the fact that YOU BELIEVE a civil uprising couldn't take place yet we've seen govts fall for alot less. oh and you talk in weeks and months? i'm talking about years and possibly a decade.
Deleteyou can't see past your own nose. you arrogantly believe that somehow British society is so stable yet my television is filled with slimy limey's that have immigrated here from the UK.
eat shit and die. i'm waiting for your country to burn.
We're not talking about Ireland here Sol, which does have a history of insurgent violence. There has been no indication that the Scots are going to do anything more than complain and pursue their political options. Nor is there any indication that England is planning to send in police/troops in force to rile them up any.
DeleteIf there's going to be a flashpoint in Britain/Europe, this isn't it. A crack in the brickwork maybe, but not a breach.
a reasonable response, so i'll give you a reasonable reply.
Deletewhy not? why isn't it possible that there is a faction of the Scottish electorate that is pissed beyond words? i simply ask you to put on your warrior hat, worse case scenario this thing and see where it leads.
i keep hearing people say that this will never happen in the UK (a rebellion) but it certainly looks like that is a reasonable scenario and I have yet to hear why it isn't.
hoping for something doesn't make it so.
After England, Spain will be the happiest with the outcome of this vote. The Germans would have loved to see the split though i am just speculating here.
ReplyDeleteNot really, not a single country would be happy with that YES thing. That would open an door for other cases of separation that in every country take place more or less.
DeleteEDIT: I will add that the only country that would be happy is the one with law that forbid the separation under penalty of death ;D
Deleteyou all are missing the signs and fail to look at the bigger picture. what have we seen? rioting in Italy. the same in Spain. rising anti-antisemitism in France. a rebellion in Ukraine and now a near vote for separation in Scotland.
Deletedon't feel bad because the US is facing the same pressures. that's why the vote here in the fall will be such fun to watch.
oh and let me be clear.
i believe that for things to get better we all need to take our medicine. we're living in an age where people desire comfort at all costs. thats why people can't see whats going on. THEY WANT EVERYTHING TO BE NORMAL. well its not. we're heading toward a global hiccup and its gonna pound us all.
the difference between me and many? i see the pain as leading to better times. the longer we delay taking our medicine the worst it will be.
Interesting breakup of Soviet union ,Czechoslovakia,Yugoslavia was ok and even encuraged (Tibet), NATO even bombed Serbia and created Kosovo that is still under foreign mandate as is Bosnia but now separatist tendencies are bad ,illegal and to be resisted with force if need be(Kurdistan ,Ukraine,Israel)
DeleteDon't worry comrade, the new Soviet Union guaranteed that nobody will separate from them anymore... if they try, they will kill them. If Russia can put an law that forbid and ban any type of separation from them, why you are so negative when Ukraine resist this type of actions. This is some kind of Kali mentality?
DeleteAs a person from a country which still has some territorial integrity issues, the heck if I support independence movements anywhere except where is suits me (Tibet/Taiwan). Everyone forgets....there is no one single rule for separatism. In international diplomacy, every country has a right to support some struggles and put down or ignore others.
DeleteThe UK is hardly the Ukraine, I don't think we are going to see an insurgency in the border shires of Scotland and England. Most people will just get over the election on the yes side. Most of that support was a soft yes opinion and in a year the SNP could very well be replaced in Scotland. Anyone who lives in the UK will find it very hard to believe that anything other than a return to normality will occur, they would laugh at such suggestions
ReplyDeleteTo be honest there is far more likely hood the USA tearing itself apart. The UK doesn't have 2 million militia members armed to the teeth waiting to take on the federal government. The US is polarising along racial grounds with the south slowly being colonised by Mexico and the prospect of states breaking away as the economy sinks into debt that is estimated could take 10 centuries to repay if they stopped borrowing of coarse. The USA is a society armed to the teeth , all there is in the UK are a few farmers with shotguns to shoot bunny rabbits. I can't see the Scots raising armour units and beginning an insurgency. Sure there are always a few nutters but I'm sure it's nothing a local constable can't handle
ReplyDeleteyou definitely have only been to some very soft places if you believe that the UK can't fall into anarchy. you've never seen the underbelly of the UK if you believe that weapons are all over that country. you have too much faith in govt if you believe that they can keep a lid on things. you talk about racial strife in teh US? you talk about us being armed to the teeth?
Deletewe haven't seen what you guys are about to experience and the juiciness of seeing a bunch of arrogant Englishmen learn what the world is really like is just too delicious to contemplate.
yeah. i can't wait.
I get the impression that you have never been to the UK. Scotland wasn't invaded , it voluntary joined in the union with England and has benefited both countries. I have many family members in both parts of the UK and the support for independence is not seen as some kind of embryonic insurgency , it's part of the democratic process. If you saw the images of yes supporters they are kids, old people and ordinary families, not neo nazi Ukrainian thugs . The uk is one of the most stable countries in the world. There was only 2 arrests during the referendum. These were one for assault and someone climbing a statue, all dealt with by a single police officer each time. On the other hand, watching the recent police activity in the US you would think they were expecting shit on the scale of Iraq . I think your vision of the uk is like that of some ex soviet republic. The supporters of the yes vote in Scotland were very peaceful and they expressed their views and will just go back to being law abiding members of society . If you visited Scotland you would come away with nothing but a vision of a peaceful country.its just not in the nature of anyone in the UK to start some kind of of insurgency
ReplyDeletei've been to the UK and its just another european country...quite honestly i found germany much more interesting. but back on task. the UK is seen as a boost to the US. i once believed that but now i see it more as a hindrance. a soldier was hacked up on your city streets, you have over 1000 jihadist fighting for ISIS with UK passports, you just had a vote to have scotland separate from the UK, you've eviscerated your military to such a scale that it barely matches one USMC division and one USN naval squadron, you have looming difficulties with your welfare state (just like us), london is raping your country (and the rest of the world) and yet you arrogantly believe that all is well?
Deleteyou still believe that the UK is more stable than germany? denmark? poland? switzerland? estonia and numerous other countries i could name?
you're smoking crack.
when the rest of europe explodes in violence due to a mix of islamic extremist, economic misery and social dysfunction the UK will be burning right along with it.
Sol, the US has cultural divides all over, in every community. While Britain's immigrant influx is mostly confined to the area in and around London. If there's any kind of armed insurgency in Britain, it will start in the south, not the north.
DeleteHolland, France, and Spain have much larger culture-war problems than Britain or Germany do. Paris is the real match-head if you're looking for one. At least 50 cars burn there each night, and as many as a thousand every New Years.
I don't doubt the threat of Islamic extremism and the potential for a Europe wide problem. But Britain is MY country and I see the the USA as just another foreign country and means nothing to me. I'm not hostile to the US , I just don't care what happens there. The US military may be big and have lots of nice toys but it's all paid for by foreign banks and it's creaking under the weight of its cost and is unsustainable. The uk has always have very small forces and we are not trying to prop up a declining collapsing empire like the US
ReplyDeleteUS attempting to maintain a collapsing empire? uh no. we're subsidizing the defense of a bunch of lazy, arrogant brits that don't have the decency to thank us. same for alot of germans. alot of italians. alot (not all) europeans. the same applies to s. koreans, japanese, filippinos and many other that hate our guts but scream for our help when the big bad wolf comes calling.
Deleteadditionally while we have never had an empire, the UK has and everyone wanted out of it. even today many in scotland wanted out but all you people that are celebrating your victory are ignoring the numbers of people that voted to leave and are hanging your hate on "democracy" and on a "majority" wanting to stay.
last but not least i've gone from a fan of the UK to a person that ... well to be honest i'm viewing you guys through the lens of just being an albatross around the neck of the free world. i value georgia, romania, poland and the rest of new europe more highly than i do the old guard of france, germany and the uk.
when another brit has his throat slit on the streets of the uk you might just wake up. more than likely not. you're the kind of guy that ignores common sense and his instincts and wonders why some thug is robbing him. the same kind of guy that wouldn't want the death penalty for a rapist or murderer.
the kind of guy that says the politically correct thing and seeks normalcy instead of looking around and seeing that the world is mad.
have fun in your delusions.
I can assure you I'm far from ' politically correct'. I believe in the death penalty and being tough on the scum on our streets, I believe the treat of Islamic extremism is real and must be faced head on. You talk if your admiration for the states of Eastern Europe , don't you think they will brush away the USA when their sums have been met. You talk of the free world but seem to hate half of it just because they don't jump to US commands anymore. The USA seems to think that the rest of the world must join in every adventure even if it doesn't affect them. There's nothing wrong with co operation with allies but it doesn't mean being their lap dog. Maybe you don't see it because you are looking at it from a USA that doesn't see the change in the world, I'm not trying to be insulting but you to face it that many countries no longer respond to US requests because it no longer has the clout it had . You seem to imagine that Europe must get involved in every military action because it suits the US . One example is Russia. You see it as an enemy that must be defeated and all European nations must fall into line. Much of Europe depends heavily on Russian gas and do not care if the USA wants to contain Russia, our objectives are diverging you can't expect others to jump when ordered to do so. The USA has it's agenda, it doesn't mean it's the same as the rest of the wests . I am a patriot to my country , I believe in a string nation and effective defences and killing our enemies when the need arises but don't expect total obedience to the USA
ReplyDeleteyou limey cunt. i don't expect your country to be obedient! i don't expect you to do as we say! i just expect you to hold up your side of the bargain! Obama (to his credit for once) didn't want to rush into Libya. the UK and France insisted. we went along. you bastards pushed for a war and then hardly did jack shit in it. you chest thumped because you fired off 4 (?) was it even four tomahawk missiles! your country seeks interoperability with the US when you can't even maintain pace with our forces, have weak logistics and can barely get ships to sea yet you insist that you're an equal partner.
Deleteyou talk about US adventures but again, your foreign minister or whatever you call it agitate for action against ISIS then wait for us to do the work. the UN that hates the US calls for action in africa to take care of the ebola crisis then the rest of the "free world" waits for us to deal with it. and finally you have an issue inside europe in ukraine and again, all you so called powerful democracy's do fucking nothing but yell for the US to take care of it.
you're a bunch of lazy bastards that don't want to do work and yet criticize the US because we do! you remind me of that bastard that i've come to hate TImothy Nichols. you chest thump, you talk shit but don't even realize that "you ain't shit" anymore!
sit down. shut up and let real men do work. but be advised. the rest of my countrymen are finally waking up to something i've been saying for a long time.
LET THE FUCKING WORLD BURN. ITS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY AND ALL THOSE THAT CRITICIZE US NEED TO BURN TOO. the middle east first and then all the rest of you fuckers.
And Scotland is not part of an empire, in fact Scotland more than England was at the forefront of empire building. Sure there was a referendum and some voted for independence. But it's not some kind if oppressed country, it's a voluntarily co joined nation in which the majority had their say
ReplyDeleteAND ONCE AGAIN YOU IGNORE THE MORE THAN 40% THAT WANTED TO LEAVE THE UNION. KEEP FOOLING YOURSELF BITCH. TROUBLE IS COMING.
DeleteTouchy touchy.kerp your hair on.so what if 40% voted for independence, by this time next week most will have forgotten, it's not some boiling hot revolution on the way , it's just a referendum. By your logic Quebec would now be involved in civil war with Canada after their failed vote. All that will happen is the Scottish parliament will get more tax raising powers which is what they wanted in the first place that's it. And don't get me started on Libya , it was the USA that was shit stirring in all the North African countries to cause instability then make the Europeans carry out your dirty work
ReplyDeletetouchy? not hardly. returning fire. what you can't take the heat. don't start shit, won't be shit. and relearn your fucking history. the UK and France pushed for action. the US didn't get involved in Libya till after the overthrow of the dictator. but you're evading the issue. you wanted war, we helped and then found out ... like always...that your military is at best a paper tiger. FOUR FUCKING TOMAHAWKS and yet the squiddies in your Navy were talking shit. the RAF was staying at four star hotels. meanwhile the USN and USMC were in the thick doing real work.
DeleteThe governments of Tunisia , Libya and Egypt at the time accused the US of funding and organising violent protest movements and in fact were their not US arrested at the time and deported . Then the US splatters Libya with middles. The uk and France have a small token involvement in that stage and then they send in the Europeans. Do you honestly think France would push for war on its own initiative, this was one big orchestrated operation. Poor old America was dragged in by those nasty Europeans . Europe has not benefited at all, the uk lost valuable oil deals , the only winner was the USA who have destabilised the entire Middle East . They desperately want to invade Syria so they can take on Iran . Just watch the us news, Fox News are obsessed with Iran . Now if you want I can trade witty banter all day but being a Limey cunt I should know my place in front of my us overlord
ReplyDeleteWell matey, I will let you go, I've a life outside in the real world, it was really enlightening exploring your vast knowledge of politics and history, ciao
ReplyDeleteGood news for Europe...sorry for the apocalyptic anti-yuropeans, bit it's seems that the nations of the old continent still have a lot of stamina...
ReplyDeletehow long did you think you bastards could hate america until americans started hating you back. talk shit you get shit. you hate someone, they hate you back. check yourself eurotrash
DeleteWell you don't know me, so you take you own shit and maybe stop using generalistic excuse to explain your own views about others. UK is one, maybe the best of you allies, they did everything (transforming their country in an american base for espionnage and putting their nuclear arsenal half in american hands came as two of the most extreme exemples) and you seem to like to see them exploding and be happy with a civil war of sorts...so don't tell me lessons about hating others, please.
Deletehey french boy. the truth hurts huh? i monitor european websites and you fuckers have a set on you.
DeleteBUT EVEN MORE TELLING IS THAT YOU BASTARDS THINK YOU CAN TALK SHIT ABOUT THE USA AND THEN HAVE US LOVE YOU ANYWAY?
eat shit and die.
balrog is it? i don't need your twisted view of history. the brits have gotten much more than they've given. you talk about our cold war activities? thats cause you and the rest of the pussies on the continent were quaking in your shoes over the soviet union. fast forward to today and after you've established the mighty eu, you still revert to form and cry for the USA to pull your shit out of the fire.
you need to understand that i really don't give a rats ass about you, your species, your nation or anything that remotely involves you. you're badass. start paying for your own defense or stop complaining because better people are doing the job that you refuse to do.
Yeah you don't know me...I'm not french. I'm from another decadent yuropean country, Spain.
DeleteYou monitor websites ??? So ??? Me too, do I have to base my views on other countries and even more on other peoples of all the stupidies and bullshit that I have seen on the internet since 1999 ??? That would be totally crazy. I visited something like 30 countries on 3 continents, that's not make me the know-it-all about them.
The truth the about the cold war is that Europe would have been again the battlefield and that the first line was mostly (logically) composed of europeans (mostly germans)...of course you are the numbers 1 since 1945 and so are the NATO leaders but that's very different to say that all the European defense was based on the US forces. All you rant about pussies is just another loud ''my dick is bigger'' talking,,,
I'm done with this.
Haha! Bad luck Sol, suck it up buttercup!!
ReplyDeleteSol, In Canada, we've lived in a "neverendum" since the 70's and we're still here. We've had two NO votes. The most recent was in 1995 which had a 50.48% NO, by the slimmest of margins. Some days it sucks, some days it's ok and some days it's great. My opinion, Canada is a richer country having Quebec in than not. That said, the majority of the Yes people in Quebec, are just regular Joes that want what is best for their family. A very small minority like in all cases are the extreme types. But that's true everywhere.
ReplyDeleteBut enough of the serious shit, so I'll finish with some good ol Scottish humour.
Did you vote?
Aye.
How did you vote?
Just told you.
You just told me?
Aye.
Can you repeat it?
Aye.
Ok, go on then.
I just did.
Did Scotland go completely bankrupt trying to establish their Malaria infested Panama colonies which actually forced them for the England-Scotland merger ?
ReplyDeleteActually the only thing that should change is the Scottish National anthem from Scotland the Brave to "God Save the Queen" The Scots majority by hook or crook wish, desire or voter fraud decided to remain in the United Kingdom.
ReplyDeleteThe Scots decided this time without English Bayonets forcing the issue, that is enough there.
What we and the Scots are left with can be summed up in this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EavpIelNHZ4
According to a poll in the USA this week, 23 % of Americans wish there state should break away from Washington, so it looks like the break up of the USA is desired by a quarter of its people. Civil war looming I think. I don't think most peoe who comment on here dislike the USA, I think they just find Soloman's comments about other countries with distaste and his raging frothing hatred of Britain is evident. Like most Americans he has an inferiority complex when it comes to Britain
ReplyDelete"Like most Americans he has an inferiority complex when it comes to Britain "
DeleteAnd why, do pray tell, would americans have an inferiority complex when it comes to the former mother country?
The UK is a collapsed, imploded empire that will have a third world economy within the decade, that has a navy smaller and weaker than the japanese self defense forces, whos healthcare system and defense is subsidized by the United States corporate powers to be, whos resources are secured by American meddling, whos welfare state is being sustained by already peaked north sea oil reserves, one could go on and on.
America, being fucktarded that it is (and it is), we dont envy the land of warm beer, cold women, and terrible food. (okay I was being a bit humorous on that one, but my other points were quite serious). Seriously. Give me one reason to envy britain as an american...
Manchester United or if you have a Scotish Heritage.....Dundee United.
DeleteHow dare you say that fish 'n' chips is a terrible food!
DeleteRussel: Most American's see the English as some deranged bunch of cross dressing Benny Hill's.
DeleteInferiority?
Nope.
The British Empire is the reason for every ill that besets the modern world today.
The English destroyed cultures, societies and religions all for Queen/King and country all for empire.
England shot people in India off Cannons and divided up the Arabs into nations and states that made no sense, created Pakistan for Crixus sake.
The sins of the English in the American colonies resonates today.
Russell
ReplyDeleteHave to agree with you, i think 90% of brits secretly like the septic's (unlike the french who plainly just hate
them ). Well that's until they actually meet an American and have to put with their Anglo-phobic bile they have been indoctrinated with since youth. To all American readers most Brits don't care or even know what 1776 is about, its all about the now.
Superb...you don't like generalizations about your country but didn't apply to yourself the thing when you direcly do it. The french this, the americans the other...man well done.
DeleteI visited Scotland courtesy of the US Marines.
ReplyDeleteI found the Scots a very friendly honest folk, fierce in a fight, without the snobbish behavior of the English.
I could tell instantly when I was talking to a Scot or an Englishman.