Check out the video posted by English Russia, it purports to show a play put on in the city center of Donetsk.
Because of the source it can be considered potential propaganda...but...
We do know, but its hardly talked about, that the Nazi's heavily influenced the
Muslim nation starting in WW2 and that influence even shows today especially in the terror groups Hezbollah and Hamas.
What is surprising is if the Nazi influence is as Russians have said. A major part of Ukrainian politics.
 |
| Haj Amin al-Husseini and Adolf Hitler on 28 November 1941. |
We do know, but its hardly talked about, that the Nazi's heavily influenced the
Muslim nation starting in WW2 and that influence even shows today especially in the terror groups Hezbollah and Hamas.
What is surprising is if the Nazi influence is as Russians have said. A major part of Ukrainian politics.
Wait... Donetsk is controlled by separatists, only the airport is still in Ukrainian hands. So in the middle of city controlled by Russians there is the weird fest with old Germanic songs, Hitlergruß's, waving that separatists so called people republic flag.
ReplyDeleteThose are the dudes who chant on the whole world that they fight with "fascists"?! WTF?!
I would think that the the play is a fairly blatant attempt to show the Ukrainian govt as Nazis. The cast are singing WW2 German army songs, making Nazi salutes and weaving between them are 2 pretty girls,one wearing a yellow dress and the other a blue dress. Yellow and blue are the colors of the Ukrainian flag. So if you see yellow and blue it means Nazis.
ReplyDeleteExactly, you got it. It was only one Nazi parade in Donetsk – when Ukrainian POWs were led on central streets, and cleaning trucks washed with water streets after them.
DeleteAuf der Heide blüht ein kleines Blümelein!
ReplyDeleteOn the contrary, Sol, this is in Donetsk, which is rebel held territory.
This little skit has three women wearing the national colors of the Ukraine, thus signifying the land. The dancers in black are 'marching' and giving Hitlergruß as they push around the women in traditional garb wearing the colors of the Ukraine, thus symbolizing that the Ukraine is being dominated by Nazi's. It's just more anti-Kiev "everyone who was against Yanukovych/Russia is a Nazi" propaganda.
Now, to be sure, there are some ultra-nationalists who were involved in the Maidan protests and some who volunteered for the Ukrainian National Guard units that were formed this Spring, but it's typical Russian/Separatists bullshit to portray everyone who doesn't want the Ukraine to be kissing Putin's ass as neo-Nazi.
@Now, to be sure, there are some ultra-nationalists @
DeleteThis "some" looks like to be a half of a country. They call hang and stab Russians, they burned alive people in Odessa, I personally read and heard from Ukrainians that all Russians are ever-drunk genetic scrap.
Being bigoted against Russia or Russians doesn't make you a fascist.
DeleteAgree. Calling Russians bioscrap and cattle (there is a nice Polish word “bydlo”), hang and stab Russians because of being Russians, and seriously declare that Ukrainians are ancient nation, ancestors of Europians and that Latin language took after Ukrainian language – this is Nazi practice. I can prove every my word above.
DeleteThe nice Polish word describing typical stereotypical Russian is "kacap". What is funny is was borrowed from Ukrainian description of Muscovite's that look like goats with long beards. But the etymology of that word is not clear, maybe yes, maybe not. In opposite we were called by most Eastern Europeans as "lachy", also Ottomans call us that as they only have connection with Commonwealth thru Ukraine and Cossack's.
DeleteBut calling Russians by names is rather normal in country's that were under Soviet occupation or in later sphere of influence. You should hear some Kazakhs what they say about Russians when they drink more then they should. I was there some 6 years ago, and I get the impression the don't like Russians there. That was weird for me as I was thinking that Kazakhstan is one of Kreml "friend".
But hate for other nation is not make you Nazi. This is just make you a... human. Many people don't have love to US or Great Britain. Do this make them all Nazi? Also the using of some ideology of higher quality of our race or group above others is not something unique. Info, you remember how Imperial Russians and Bolsheviks use the Balkans ideology of Pan-Slavism? And how this is again promoted by modern Russia? We all all Slavic brothers, bla bla bla... taking in account how much be spill our blood we would say old maxim "Who need enemy when you have friends like that".
But calling an fascist because I don't agree with Kremlin politics is rather "normal" this days. Say something against this politics under some vid in 'tube... you will not need to wait long to be called and Nazi, Fascist, Bandera, even as I mention sometime ago an Nazi Fascist (promotion, Buy one get One free!). Hell my name is Jarek, and some dude start to proclamation that this is for sure Ukrainian name and I'm and Bandera acolyte because of this.
The radicalization of views start to be really hard now, on both sides of conflict.
to Shas
Delete@The nice Polish…."kacap"@
It is Polish spelling of Turkish “kasap” which means “a butcher”. I guess it is our famous warlord Alexander Suvorov is “guilty”. He had deal with both Turkish and Polish.
@ was borrowed from Ukrainian description of Muscovite's that look like goats with long beards@ the more some nation teases Russians in peaceful time the more loud they cry when Russians begin f@ck them during a war.
@You should hear some Kazakhs what they say about Russians when they drink more then they should@
This is a result of so called “Russian occupation”, not only in Kazakhstan, in all post-soviet country is the same. And all these post-soviet nations are absolutely right – if stupid Russian idiots protect them, supply them resources and technologies almost for free, build infrastructure – why not to claim some additional money from Russian idiots (“for occupation”) with money from USA and Old Europe for “euro integration” or for “protection EU against Russian barbarians”. Russian great idiocy must be punished.
@But hate for other nation is not make you Nazi. This is just make you a... human. Many people don't have love to US or Great Britain. Do this make them all Nazi?@
Agree, totally. We have Russian Nazi – but they are strictly punished by government. It is normal. If in any country pop up some idiots with calling to kill Russians and they are punished by local gov – no problems, shit happens. But if this calling is supported by local government – it is another. Story of Ukrainian Nazi is long and I’m not interested to discuss it here. I can say only one thing – it was happen I met a lot of my comrades, who were in charge near Ukraine. I’ve heard some, and find it good, very good but not enough. My thought in short – if someone, in healthy mind and older then 18, (no matter which nation) becomes to jump and cry “we a great nation, stub and hang Russians” – I hear that someone wants to kill my daughter and I have only one answer – “Die!”
It is stupid – to be a citizen of geopolitical subject with so bloody history and so huge resources under control like Russian and demand love from any other country. But if we did so stupid things in the Past it is not a reason to do more stupid and ignore callings to kill us. Do not love and call to kill- are absolutely different things like a finger and an asshole.
@But calling an fascist because I don't agree with Kremlin politics is rather "normal" this days.@
To be zombied with official propaganda is an easiest way to live in every country, ha?
@Nazi, Fascist, Bandera, even as I mention@
It is amusing that some Polish remember “KGB” and “NKVD” but forget about UNA UNSO. There is a Russian saying “If you forget your history – it will come to your again”.
Being stupid and small minded is not a national monopoly. However, history, especially for those countries close to Russia, is full of Russian "love". It is to be expected Russians are not the most popular people around the world. I laugh my ass of at the fact that Russia has a neo-nazi movement cause this proves how fucked up lack of education is. As for the matter in discussion, it is Oktoberfest man :-))). I've run into my local "nazies" at the local beer fest, so....
ReplyDelete1st : do not asimilate nationnalist to nazi !
ReplyDelete2nd : there were nazi that helped germany during WW2 in ukraine, rejecting communism.
3rd : after the war, USA helped a nazi guerilla in ukraine during almost 10 years, that implied more communism repression than anywhere in USSR : that's why Ukraine is full of nazi.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Deletewhat is the name of the nazi that the US helped in Ukraine following the war and provide a link, documentation...anything to support that statement.
DeleteThere is some serious logic flaw in thinking of our dear writer here. Something that I presume he imagine from some fantasy world of his.
DeleteWhen Soviets conquer a country they put in action the mass cleansing of it by Internal Security. The infamous NKVD eliminate any type of intelligence, resistance cells and everyone who would be potential problem in the future. They were deported, killed end eliminated. Then the massive reeducation machine would enter the land and from start they will recreate the nation in to Homo Sovieticus. In Poland, they need only 3 years to crack organised resistance and next 4 to eliminate any type of resistance in country. And we had the largest and well organised Resistance in Europe.
Now the repressions in Ukraine and cleansing of Reich supporters that start after Soviets take control on the land is in fabsther opinion such large that they did miss... a full country of Nazis. The NKVD was able to cleanse the resistance cells in every nation but in Ukraine, with such higher repressions they were not able to remove them.
I was thinking that fabsther was just an "Useful idiot"... now I remove the word "useful" for that sentence. He is just, an Idiot.
to Shas
Delete@When Soviets conquer a country they put in action the mass cleansing of it by Internal Security. The infamous NKVD eliminate any type of intelligence, resistance cells and everyone who would be potential problem in the future. They were deported, killed end eliminated@
Pan Shas, with all due respect – but how many your relatives were suffered because of KGB? As long I have internet-conversations with Polish as long I read about terrible NKVD, when I asked real examples I’ve got curses, damnations, ignore, links on stupid polish books in which one polish terrify another with “NKVD” and “KGB”. But real examples – never. But I’ve heard a lot of times in Russia how good Polish illegal speculate in gold and other deficit goods during soviet time (instead terrible KGB), but I’ve never heard about any Polish cleaning toilet somewhere in Moscow.
I will have a pleasure to answer your question info' but I'm in the same situation as you some time ago and dangerous of my ass desecrating Union Jack is also very real. :D Give me couple of h and I will write the post for you.
DeleteShit, I write this post already once and push wrong button and delete it.
DeleteAt the beginning it presents some background.
After the war the Polish Bolshevik and the signing of a peace treaty in Riga in 1921 the Republic regained the lands that were under its dominion before the partitions. It was a long border, difficult terrain to protect and control. That the war has officially finished does not mean that virtually ended. This "border on fire" became the scene of fighting between the Bolsheviks and the newly revived the Republic. A group of saboteurs, Communists, vulgar thugs, they all still crossed the border to wreak Troubles and attack government institutions. Local police, poor and sparse had no chance against such a large number of violations of the border. In 1924, the number of incidents reached 200 Polish government was publicly attacked for failing to protect their own borders and ensure the safety of its citizens. Therefore, this year set up Border Protection Corps, a formation like a civilian but that is actually a part of the army. Chosen for the highly motivated and efficient people, armed them and organized. Since 1924 they start to fight with different groups That still cross the border from Russia, with time began to seal the border. It was not an easy job, frequently fights with different saboteurs and criminal groups.
Also with time Corps began to be the main enemy of the OGPU and then the NKVD. Intelligence and counterintelligence this formation were exceptional smooth and continuous war fought in the shadows with their Soviet opponents. For these organizations became arch enemies.
Now to the point.
My great-great uncle who served in the Corps, was young 22 years old handsome man as my grandmother liked to repeat. He served in the "Polesie" Brigade for three years before the war. After its outbreak in 1939, he and his unit were on the border even to the dissatisfaction of the soldiers themselves. Further units were withdrawn from the border to reinforce the crumbling front lines when the Polish army was not able to face efficiently the German Blitz. When September 17th Red Army invade Poland his unit commander refuse to give up his arm and try to join the Army Group "Polesie" under General. Kleeberg. After fights with the forward elements of the Red Army my uncle was wounded in the leg, after day or two and what he left of his unit were taken prisoners by Soviets. It was the last message that my great-grandmother got.
In 1944, he visited her old friend of her brother, fought together in 39, and together they got captured. In That time he was wounded in the arm. When the Red Army capture them took their valuables and shoes. Then led doublethink lieutenants who were at the branch to the side to a group of officers in blue caps with red rims. After a short argument one of the Soviet officer pulled out a gun and shot the two lieutenants. The rest of the soldiers started a strike butts Poles who jumped up to the top of the sound of gunfire. Then they were led in a column in the direction of Russia. At night, the next day my uncle turned the attention of one of the guards and his friend and three other men escaped. My uncle was wounded in the leg and unfortunately could not join them.
In 1944, this friend met a deserter from the German Army, a Silesian who was drafted into the army by force. He fought as a guerrilla, told as serving with the Germans captured Minsk and in the prison of the NKVD saw bloodbath that trapped arranged torturers. Full jails shot and stabbed the victim, he personally seen many of them in uniform of Border Protection Corps.
Such was probably the fate of my great-great-uncle, he could also die from wound infection, or during the "escape". It is for us the mystery when, after the war, my great-great-grandmother tried to learn something from the people's government accused me of reactionaries and unnecessary accused the Russians. The fate of my uncle is unknown at this day.
CDN...
There are many books about the Soviet occupation of Polish territory in the years 1939 - 1941 Some better, some worse. It was taboo for decades and sometimes difficult to collect eyewitness who largely already dead. This is my personal story about that event.
DeleteYou also try to talk a little bit about the other side of the coin.
My grandfather was too young to fight in 1939 my great-great-grandfather also did not let him to join the partisans.
Can thus survived until the arrival of the Soviets, who knows. However, when the Polish People's Army has been recruited into the army. Not assigned to the formation of the front but the guard company. He served as an escort for their pay or as a guard warehouses. In time, together with the unit was subordinated to the group fighting the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA in Polish) hunted them in the woods. The difficult job, nationalists were brutal and cunning. Grandfather saw couple of times what they did that Poles and Ukrainians that help them, bloody images. Often, the Ukrainians themselves helped them in this fight, perhaps because the grandfather has never claimed that he hated Ukraine. But in relation to the nationalists of the UPA, he volunteered for the firing squad when you had one shot.
Poles remember the UPA in Volyn massacre. It's still a sensitive issue and a group of new nationalists in Ukraine does not make it easy to forget. But the Poles also remember about the NKVD and his works, remember that it is the organization created the Polish secret police, the UB. When the Gestapo left Lublin Castle where it was killing main house if it the NKVD so it kills in thatplace and did not stop, just the name of the executioners has changed. The death camp at Majdanek changed ownership. Instead of the Jews was put to him Poles from the underground resistance.
There was recently a great position by Grzegorz Motyka "The White Poles hunt" NKVD actions against the Resistance 1944-1953. For now in English, maybe they will translate it into other languages. Also he writes a pretty good book about Polish Ukrainian relations "From the massacres of Volyn to the action Wisła". This one is more about fight with Ukrainian nationalists and later deportations of Ukrainian from south-east Poland.
And at the end some funny story.
When my grandfather guarding one of the exGerman weapons factories had been warned that a Soviet nit creeps up to the guards, when he suprise them he yelling at them, put them to raport and give additional service and no pass for free day. Grandfather midnight saw movement, a small shrub constantly changing position, a little forward and freezes. And again a little forward and freezes. My grandfather had excellent eyesight and night was cloudless, so back to the guardhouse, drzwoni to the chief companions, and reports that he saw movement. For this boss companions conspiratorial voice responds, "Janek aim low and don't miss" Then grandfather came from the guardhouse, pointed a machine gun in a bush and fired a series. Then he fired a rocket signal in the air and waited for the patrol who immediately appeared in the jeep. Well, they found Soviet officer, with three holes in the ass. Yelling like a man possessed was taken to a medical facility. The commander of the regiment sentthen to wounded bottle of moonshine and warned that as once again he will scare his people do it more than blow his ass. Although the grandfather got a reprimand and jail for shooting the officer Soviet Union but also promoted to corporal for fulfilling the obligations.
Sorry info' this is rather long response and some parts are not work well in translation device. I apologies for that.
Delete@The fate of my uncle is unknown at this day@
DeleteIt is a war, pan Shas. Your grangranuncle was a warrior and he got normal fate for a warrior, IMHO. I hope you remember fate of Bol’shevic’s POW’s in Polish camps. Some Polish died as soviet enemies, some polish shared our victory in Reichstag (and they fought very well, those Polish). It is the Past. The question is – will we fight in Future or not?
@Poles remember the UPA in Volyn massacre. It's still a sensitive issue and a group of new nationalists in Ukraine does not make it easy to forget. But the Poles also remember about the NKVD and his works, remember that it is the organization created the Polish secret police, the UB@
I see how you remember Volin’, pan Shas. Your Kachinskiy made my day once, when he cried “Slava Ukraine” and was answered “Heroyam slava”. And your foreign affairs minister with some other European politicians helped to Ukrainian rioters in Kiev, and among the rioters Bandera, who organized mass killing of Polish, is a hero.
NKVD was a repression organ – which must be in each decent country. By the way, you should know what did your countrymen with Jew during WWII and scarcely more after it – and this is not all. Polish not a white and fluffy nation, ha?
I never read from Polish anything about some industry developed German territories were joined to Poland, never read anything about industrial cooperation in soviet time, soviet military technologies you still use and so on. It was not only NKVD in our mutual history. And of course, I never find understanding among Polish that we, Russians, destroyed our own super-state with our own hands because we were not happy about KGB-things as well. But what is wrong by now between current Russia and Poland? Our idiot-Medvedev even polished Polish ass once because of Katyn’ (I spat over my monitor that time, and still hate Medvevdev for it, Luntik, f@ck!) – and Polish cries about occupation became even louder and new word “compensation” appeared. I keep you pan Shas as a decent son of your nation so I want to ask you – what do you Polish want? Polish empire from “a sea to a sea” – It is impossible by now, I had all chances, You almost defeated and conquered us, Russians, but you lost. Shit happens. Do you want war with us? Ukrainians wanted, they took part in two wars against us, they blame us for KGB and Holodomor and other propaganda scrap all the way
Do you want war with us? Ukrainians wanted, they took part in two wars against us, they blame us for KGB and Holodomor and other propaganda scrap all the way. Now these ‘ancient nation” and “great warriors” are squealing so loud that even aliens on Mars know everything about “bad Russia”. And we f@cked then now only “on a half of a dickhead”. I’m a “liable for call-up” and I have responsibility to say: want war – no problems, it is not new for us. But all people around me live routine life, and new Iphone is more important for them then great-country idea. And Russia as a state uses economy competition instruments more often military. Russian empire with ideas of “panslavyanism” and “Ortodox-realm” are dead, Soviet ideas of ‘’global-brotherhood-by-force” and “socialistic realm of common people” are dead. We have no similar idea by now. We do not pretend to be a global leader.
But everything will be changed if we hear “psya crev” or “Moskaley na nozhi” near us….I was told about some Russian specnaz trooper who likes fishing on Azov sea between fulfilling tasks on Ukraine territory.
So what do you want?
@Although the grandfather got a reprimand and jail for shooting the officer Soviet Union but also promoted to corporal for fulfilling the obligations.@
IMHO your grandfa did everything very well and according to army regulations. To check out troops discipline on “regime object” this way– is totally stupid. And a stupid officer is a direct threat to his own troops.
Aye, some 17.000 (correct number is hard to set, from 80-85 prisoners some 16 to 20k died) Bolsheviks died in camps in times and war mainly from epidemic like typhus, cholera, dysentery or flu. Poland was not ready to receive such number of prisoners and used old camps left over from Austrians and Germans. The numbers of medicine or doctors were sparse as they did go mainly for Polish wounded then some Bolsheviks. The irony is that the the fatal lack of hygiene or even hygiene regime in Red Army of that time create those outbreaks at first. Already infected prisoners that did not shown symptoms were put in to large groups then after anyone take notice half of camp was sick. Some of course were executed, like the Red Army soldiers from 3th Cav corp that were taken prisoners and mere days before they executed prisoners from Polish 49 Infantry Regiment. Almost poetic eye for the eye. Some time ago I read memories of polish doctor, Feliks Przesmycki how he was moved to prison camp in Strzałkowie to contain the outbreak by the order of government. It's not like some people try to promote that Poles close the door and let the prisoners die out. I also hope you know that on the other side number of Polish prisoners in Bolsheviks camps in Russia and Lithuania territory from 51k number died some 20k.
DeleteThe main reason is that nor in Polish or Bolsheviks camps in that time (I hope) prisoners did not die because that was an order from gov. Polish prisoners that were taken in 39' did not die from starving, sickness ect. they were executed by mass by the order of Soviet government. That was planed war crime operation and maskirowka.
Some Poles did take some role in killing the jews, there were some pogrom cases like in Jabłonne. Generaly speaking as the Jew dispora was very large in Poland before the war it also create some more radical situations. Many jews were hiden from Nazis, Poles help them in great numbers. But yes, no all white and fluffy.
Don't you even remind me about Kaczyński, small, envious, power hungry politician. He love to fight the Polish-Polish war as he in his eyes and his acolytes is the only true patriot and everyone else is not. He hate everyone, Russians, Germans even he called Silesians and concealed German option. and fifth column. His brother was a little more calm but they are both from the same ideology group.
The foreign affairs minister did what the foreign affairs minister should do. He support the movement that would push back Russian influence from Polish border, just as Russians creating the chain of nations that separate us from Russia in our national interest. In history every time when Russia was at the peak of it's power we suffer, every time when it had problems we flourish. As the Russia is still view as the main enemy of Poland supporting her enemy's is the logic thing. Old maxime, "enemy of my enemy is my friend'... for now.
CDN...
What Poles want, ask four of them and you will receive five answers. We are fiercely independent, this is our + and - in the same way. We don't like even when Poles rule over us not to mention when Soviets did. Yes, Soviets invest some in us, we invest some in Soviet Union (my grandfather ride many times after he leave army with "contingents" to Russia every year, is not that the only Russia send us things, we send them also a lot of things)... after war we receive some German lands, but we lost some old Polish lands, half of it. It's you know like someone would take whole European part of Russia, give it to someone else and instead give Russia some lands in China. I don't think Russians would be happy for that... The Poland from sea to sea... oh and old idea, taking it's rots in the glory days of First commonwealth when we start at Baltic ended at Black Sea. You will meet some persons who would like that idea. But we acknowledged our place in Europe now, that Silesia and Pomerania are ours now and it's part of Poland. And info' we did not "almost" defeat you... we DID defeat you. :D We are probably the only ones after the Horde that captured and hold Moscow for rather longtime. Be nice or we will do this again! (joke :D)
DeleteWhat would I want? I would say that mainly the demilitarization of Königsberg as I'm tired of constant remind how nukes from it can destroy half of Poland in first strike. And stay in your borders, we will stey in ours. Even if some Ukrainians would like to kill you all... do you really think the are able to do this? If they would attack you the Russian military would sooner or later roll over them in full open action. With the world support I would ad. But now you have the opinion of bully that attack poor or small neighbors and irritate everyone around. Tell me, do Russian officials really need to threaten Moldavian that they will fly nuke bomber next time to them or that they will erase some nations soon... or for fuck sake piss of Swedes by crossing there air space with planes? In simple ways the ordinary people here have the feel that Russians do everything to piss everyone around now. If this will not calm down we will start to have REAL problems.
I like our discussions info' it's nice to exchange ideas and point of view with you.
@we send them also a lot of things@
DeleteAgree.
@we lost some old Polish lands, half of it@
Correct me, if I wrong, but most of the territories were agricultural and not industrial and infrastructural developed. And this an another moment – old conflict between Ukrainian and Polish was resolved with removing Polish from territories of present Western Ukraine and adding some German territory to Poland in turn.
we DID defeat you.
Yeh, this is why we still respect you as a nation – we do not tell funny stories about Polish, and so called “Polish family names” (as mine – Oleshkevich) Russians often keep as noble family names. We have a very sensitive historical memory and a lot of old events are still actual for us. And we (as I can see it) respect nations who were our decent enemies in the Past, who stepped on a battlefield against us under their flags to fight for their own Truth.
demilitarization of Königsberg
Hmmm. I’ve never heard or read about extreme military (especially about Nukes) in the region. What do you concrete mean as demilitarization of Königsberg?
@Even if some Ukrainians would like to kill you all... do you really think the are able to do this?@
Intention to kill us as such is a reason to our strike first. There is no discussion. If any one wants to kill Russians – so be it, but be ready to die in turn. And according to this one thing must be remembered - we do everything “too much” – love too much, kill too much. This is why I think that it was some our secret service game too in organizing Ukrainian Nazi riot. It was very uncomfortable situation for our present authority of pro-western oligarchs and suddenly Ukrainian Nazi appear, Russians switched over to another problem, forgot about our internal thieves, corruptioners, traitors, uncompetitive bureaucrats and so on. I do not such presents by accident.
@Moldavian that they will fly nuke bomber next time to them or that they will erase some nations soon...@
It was Rogozin – I treat him as a political prostitute at least for his standing on the first Maydan in orange scarf. This bla-bla-maker lost some important documents this time as I remember. I do not respect his at all and his words about “erase” and so on – serious politicians must not do such stupid things. Otherwise I would like to see his actions according to our cosmos programs (which he is responsible) but not cheap PR. But I sense patriotic bla-bla-bla only. The worst thing that this “major” (in Russian slang – incoherent son of a “top dog” father) can be our next president((((
@or fuck sake piss of Swedes by crossing there air space with planes?@
Normal military activity, IMHO.
@In simple ways the ordinary people here have the feel that Russians do everything to piss everyone around now. @
May be, but IMHO we are open for discussion.
@If this will not calm down we will start to have REAL problems@
We can be done if some our vital demands would be realized. If not we got what we want by force, if it will be needed – but get it via agreement is more preferable IMHO.
@I like our discussions info' it's nice to exchange ideas and point of view with you. @
Mutually. I treasure our discussion.
Indeed Kresy Wsochdnie (Eastern Borderland) were not infrastructure developed territories, from point of economical view we gain a lot, a LOT! more when the Silesia was again joined to Poland. But that region had a historical, moral value to Poles. One of two great Polish Commonwealth city's Lvov and Vilnius were taken, now they are part of other country's but in that time is like... Russia would lost Sankt Petersburg.
DeleteFrom economical point of view it was not that bad deal, from historical and cultural a terrible blow.
Poles also respect the enemy, they can hate it but at the some time they respect it. We respect Ottomans as worthy adversary even if they were infidels! ( ;D) but they fight good and respect us also. Do you know that Ottoman Empire was the only nation that did not recognize the partition of Poland? Every year when evoys from Austria and Russia visit the Empire with gifts they need to wait because the envoy from Lehistan (as they call Poland) did not yet arrive. That did piss of both country's envoys really good. :D
Russians were always respected as enemy, never unsung. Whole army tactic of Second Commonwealth was design around fighting with Bolsheviks/Soviets. We maybe hate Russians in that time, but never underestimate them.
Demilitarization of Königsberg. In that region the special region I must add exist a heavy fortified military complexes. The number of soldiers is not that high as in times of Soviet Union but still there are up to 25k of soldiers, now is something from 10 to 15k with heavy weapons. also stockpiles of nukes are rather large there. Some of Iskanders were observed in there also even when Kreml denied that. From 2012 the military presence there start to rise.
In the perfect world I would like to Königsberg be a non nuke zone with serious smaller military component. Not like anyone would like to attack it. It's just is that type of Sword of Damocles over Poland and Baltic States.
@Russians switched over to another problem, forgot about our internal thieves, corruptioners, traitors, uncompetitive bureaucrats and so on. I do not such presents by accident.@
You know info' how this works right? Old trick as world itself, how to turn attention of society from internal problems... make some external and unite people against it. If you play it good you can blame everything over that external problems. Look it's not our fault it's theirs...whoever they are.
Rogozin, yeah... there is always that type of idiot in every government and nation. We have ours, you have yours, ect... and you wonder, how da fuck those people are in that position!? An president... shiiiittttt... now I really prefer that Putin will again exchange presidency with Miedwiediew, I was always think that he is more... calm.
Maybe normal activity info' maybe... but in that political situation it is just asking for trouble. One shaky hand, one bad decision and the shit storm can start. We should not do this in this moment, stay out of ours air space as long as we can, not to tempt the fortune.
To Solomon
ReplyDeleteI first heard about that in Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States
I read much about that like in this book :
http://www.academia.edu/3420146/The_Early_Cold_War_in_Soviet_West_Ukraine_1944-1948
Globalsecuriy speak about other codename for CIA operations :
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/ussr.htm
You can search yourself more but that is credible.
That was smart a the moment : Nuclear balance was for USA, Repression everywhere in USSR...
That certainly weakened USSR for 10 years.
The brutal counter insurgency in Ukraine ( the most brutal than anywhere in USSR) has certainly created more rebels, at least in minds, than it has killed.
Just like IRak, afghanistan, gaza, you fight insurgency, insurgency grows more !
@Shas : Nice move, you coroborate facts, you cut it when you like and you launch your opinion just like if it was the only Point of view, the only truth...
Then you insult me, clearly because you lack of argumentation.
You win debate only because you exhausted us. WE havething much important to do in contrary of never ending arguments with close minded people...
Us? ... from when you start to speak about yourself in third person? If you have arguments you can continue the discussion, if you run from it, then it is YOU that don't have arguments. Mister "I know everything about Soviets way of actions because I live in far far away land that never meet them in person"... please.
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