Wednesday, November 12, 2014
Sailors attacked in Turkey while on shore leave.
The Sailors should have manned the fuck up and beat the shit out of those bastards. Fuck a speech. Just punch the bastard in the throat and haul ass.
But rant aside.
Who the hell thought that it would be a good idea to grant shore leave in fucking Turkey! THEY HAVE SUPPORTED ISIS!!!! We're lucky they were'nt kidnapped and in the hand of those terrorists.
Where is Naval Intelligence and the Force Protection guys to assess these areas before our guys start wandering around in civvies in public?
Someone failed big time. They're just lucky Sailors didn't bleed for their fuckup.
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I would say animals... but that would be a disgrace to the actual animals.
ReplyDeleteMore world is burning news: Egyptian Navy vessel attacked while underway; on fire
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2014/11/12/egyptian-navy-boat-attacked-north-damietta-port/
The Turks are protected by their buddies in UKplc. They are a clear and present danger to all NATO forces. BTW that means UKplc will sell out as well. Watch your backs ANZUS.
ReplyDeleteOf the four empires taken out by UKplc one hundred years ago only one got protected at its core by UKplc.
BTW did you note Singapore mil getting all cosey with the ChiCommil. Another UKplc backstabbing sleeper waiting for the call.
Don't think so INCOMING, I don't think the Sing mil will be so stupid as to tie their supply lines so tightly with the US... then jump the other way. Makes all their equipment as useful as paperweights. I mean, JDAMs, HIMARs, AMRAAMs, then all of a sudden you switch to a side that doesn't produce any of these? Your military's fu-cked if that happens. My call is that it's more of a token gesture to China (See? We're not ignoring you.) than any actual significant event. After all, the US still has a massive lead in basing 7th fleet there. The Chinese? Zip, nada, nothing.
DeleteI gotcha Owl. It is a call based on a great many factors. Currently US is running on credit. If the ChiComms make the BIS a deal then Copenhagen might replace Pearl as a USN instructive. POTUS currently looks like a Darius and US forces smell like the Soviet forces during the 1930s purges.
DeleteI hope I'm wrong but I am sure that the bankers still have the Brisbane line on their maps.
Meh, they just stood there and watch while people trowed shit and hit them.
ReplyDeleteSoP while on shore leave for US Forces is to not engage in fisticuffs with the locals.
ReplyDeleteTo do so invites political problems better to take their shit and leave.
SOP is to NOT START fights with locals. if you're attacked, you can use an appropriate amount of force to protect yourself and other Marines but you are to report details of the incident as soon as you get back to base, ship etc...
DeleteI have buddies who lost stripes and pay finishing fights started by locals, some ended up in jail.
DeleteThen again that was the 70's and the mood was decidedly anti Military both abroad and at home.
No, even defensive fighting was strictly discouraged by rocks and shoals regulations.
Then again maybe it was the mission of the Marines who were involved, your clearance depended upon your ashore activities.
The word was, don't have a fight for any reason with the locals.
To be honest, sol, I think they made a wise decision in choosing to run rather than fight. They had no idea how many of those guys were around. It could have turned out like the scene in Rush Hour 2 where Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker pick a fight with the mob boss in the massage parlor.
ReplyDeleteIf I was on a ship that had been underway for a long time I would have risked my chances at liberty too. I also would have gone mostly just in the daylight like these sailors did. Seems like they didn't make any dumb or unreasonable decisions. It was just a fucked up situation. The real problem is with the Turkish letting this ideology exist within their borders. I no longer think of Turkey as an ally now.
Ideology is one thing, thuggery is another and I'm sure the Turks want to part of this sort of activity.
Delete'Youth Group'? Makes it sound like the Boy Scouts.
If I was CO of the ship, I'd get 10 of the biggest, baddest mofos, give them some good hand-to-hand refreshers and start visiting Turkish youth groups.
Shore leave in any Muslim country should be forbidden from the top.
DeleteIt's a stupid thing to do, go ashore in what is an unfriendly nation.
There were places we simply were not allowed to visit on shore leave, Panama CZ comes to mind, as does South Africa but that was a long time ago.
Zebra, its important to point out the attackers aren't connected to Islam, they were secular ultra nationalist (the good guys in Turkey, theoretically). As for ending shore leave in Turkey, are we going to pull all NATO bases out too? NATO's Land Commander (a US 3 star) is HQed in Turkey because they've got the 2nd largest Army in NATO.
DeleteThis situation might be shitty for our sailors but an uptick in Turkey is actually a good thing to counter the current government which has been leaning towards conservative Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hood_event
ReplyDeleteRead this Sol. Then you may change your perspective if you are wise enough.
Regards.
Have to agree with Aybars on the 'context' of this unfortunate incident (but nonetheless a cowardly attack).
DeleteNot sure it's the real trigger event though, but it's true that there was real outrage in Turkey about the capture of Turkish SOF personnel in Northern Iraq back then.
I remember this thing very well and was taken aback by the way the US troops were ordered to treat the Turkish military, who were (and are still) members of NATO and thus allies. Now they were caught in an area they were not supposed to be, sure, but they way they got treated (flexicuffs and hoods over their head) was contrary to all rules applying to that kind of situation, when you deal with non hostile forces. I guess the call was made somewhere in the DoD, possibly by Rummy himself, wouldn't surprise me, to send a msg back to Ankara.
That's for the context of the recent staged "payback" action. Doesn't change anything in the fact that this was a cowardly and unprovoked attack (as in unprovoked by the sailors who were there). Shows that the atmosphere in Turkey has shifted very much away from where the country was 10-15 years ago and that the nationalistic, anti-west, pro-islamist politics of Erdogan are certainly showing results ...
Time for Navy and Air Force to reconsider ground rules for military personnel getting on shore or getting out of Incirlik Air Force Base.
I agree with Hecate, this was an unprovoked and cowardly attack and i condemn it.
DeleteThere is a circle of fire around Turkey (Ukraine, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Georgia and so on...) and most of the Turkish citizens think this is the result of weak foreign policies of US in Eurasia and Middle East.
Briefly, you can not simply invade a country, destabilize the region and say ''goodbye guys, Good luck with Iran and Maliki''.
It is not only about Turks, Nobody trusts or likes US anymore in the region.(Why dont you ask Ukrainians how do they feel about the so called Western support against Putin?) And your arrogance doesn't help to fix it.
@Why dont you ask Ukrainians how do they feel about the so called Western support against Putin?@
DeleteWhat type of help do you mean?
@Shows that the atmosphere in Turkey has shifted very much away from where the country was 10-15 years ago and that the nationalistic, anti-west, pro-islamist politics of Erdogan are certainly showing results ...@
DeleteTotally agree. I’ve got a lot of conversations in Internet with Muslims from different countries (including islamists), but only among Turks I’d met people openly aggressive against other countries because of Islamism issues. For example one Turk ranted that Russian region Chuvashia must be free against “Russian occupation” as “historical Muslims region”. The funny thing is that my close friend is from large and old Chuwashian family – and he says that historically Chuwashians were heathens, and then because of Russian influence a lot of them became Orthodox Christians, no Muslims religion at all!
Another example – I’d met a black-skin (I mean nothing bad in this word) guy from Somalia who styled himself as a “Turk” and called to kill Armenians because the oppress Azerbadzhanians, and kill Russians (of course, of course) because they help to Armenians. I still have no idea what it was –this crazy “Turk”…..
So I guess that there are rising pro-Islamism movements in Turkey, which became more and more aggressive and obvious.
Screw Turkey and screw Ukraine. Neither are friends and neither is worth one drop of American blood or one dime of American treasure.
DeleteThe Turks ain't never been nor ever will be our friends or allies, no Muslim nation is or will be.
And to think, its barely a day since i wrote here about Angry Anti-US mobs running about creating chaos.
ReplyDeleteTime for a margin call.
ReplyDeleteIf the Turks can't police their own idiots, maybe their continued NATO membership needs a re-think.
Maybe they figure they'll do better with ISIS, given their usual civic change-of-command festivities elsewhere, but leaving them at the end of the fish hook to dangle might induce a strategic re-think of their position.
The attackers were secular nationalists, not islamists. Nationalists by definition don't like any outsiders (especially considering the hood incident in Iraq). If that had been US troops I'd wager money the same incident might happen in the US if Turkish Sailors were in the US.
DeleteThe only larger strategic context that needs to be applied here is the fact that in a screwed up way this is a positive development. Turkey had a long history of secular nationalism that kept the crazies at bay, the fact that secular nationalism is coming back is a REALLY good thing because it means the Islamists are in trouble.
I know Turkey is our NATO ally and their country is in a strategic location, but I feel they are definitely ideologically not aligned with us. Even in the past they have shunned us many times, strategically. Maybe this is an isolated incident, but the case against them seems to be building up ever more so.
ReplyDeleteWith all respect, there appears to be some expected confusion, probably mixed with pinch of disinformation found on the web, with regard to the view that Turkiye (Govt) supports ISIS today.
ReplyDeleteIf anything, the truth of the story is that current Turkish govt has in fact Implored USG to join them in striking ISIS - in a combined, more decisive/coordinated assault on the ground.
In the past (pre-ISIS), the Turk-Syrian borders were largely open and a more liberal policy existed to allow foreign fighters sympathetic with anti-Assad rebellion to operate and organize at will. But Turkish policy has been fairly consistent with respect to imploring international community to engage in coordinated effort to stabilize Syrian conflict via established 'safe havens' protected by 'no fly zones'. That and the official Turkish policy to support a transitional political process which would promote more pluralistic, reconciliatory govt, as means (political solution) to hopefully end the escalating brutality (war solution) and barbarism next-door.
Perhaps such a partial NFZ and safe haven established in late 2012 would have better succeeded in transitioning the conflict to a political solution prior to ISIS ever forming and launching hell in Syria.
Regardless of the political views, and how to solve the Syrian and ISIS conflict etc, the current Turkish govt is not 'supporting ISIS' in the Syrian conflict. Turkish govt classifies them a terrorist organization.
this is just pure media BS , look at the staged crowd attacking a confused american , but never truly attacked him or even tried to injure him... it is so amateurish , like some rich college kids who think they doing their country a favor by hitting on random american... pure show, if the turks want to hurt american sailors seriously they can easily kidnap them like what someone did in beirut..
ReplyDeleteTo kick the bear back into its den, Turkey carrier is a must have... And its rather unwise to wander alone in arab country.
ReplyDeleteA bunch of sheltered college kids probably...now if it had been Corporal Seyit here, who in March 1915 humped three 475 pound shells up the steps to his 240mm gun when the hoist broke down at the Dardanelles, then there would be a problem: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Seyid_Onbashi.jpg
ReplyDeleteI thought IS was created by US! This is what we can read here, everywhere.
ReplyDelete@zebra dun
Are you a Jew, Greek or Armenian?
are you serious dude? wow. just plain wow. i thought ISIS was created by Turkey!!!! i read that everywhere. does that make me a Jew, a Greek or Armenian????? ok. i held off but its time to ask the question. watch the blog for more.
Deletei read it in many Herman magazines and newspapers.
DeleteI ask @Zebra Dun because of his last sentences. But he doesnt give an answer.
Turkey is in transition. Their military leaders have mostly been secular and friendly to the US and NATO. However many Islamic radicals have been elected into their government. A decade ago, they had no problem making military connections to Israel. Now the government has broken all those old ties and is shifting between the secular and extremist factions. The atrocities of ISIS makes them a threat but polls have shown a surprising amount of sympathy with ISIS in a large part of the populace (off top of my head 30%) but an equal number support fighting ISIS. But most aren't happy about helping Kurds (ethnic thing). It's a tinderbox. If their econmy goes in the dumps, the Islamo-fascists would gain more power. If they military gets the greenlight to go all-in against ISIS and does well, I think the pro-US/NATO factions might regain power.
ReplyDeleteOh, before anyone asks, my ANCESTRY is traced to a pair of German Mercenaries brought to the American colonies to fight in the French and Indian war, followed by 80 years or so of poor American farmers, then an abolitionist ancestor decided to join the Union Army and ended up marrying a Cherokee, followed by the last century or two of mixed German, Dutch, and Irish parentage, presently mixing with African and English...not that my or Solomon's or anyone's ethnicity, background or whatever is anyone's damn business. You don't have an ethnicity that supposedly hate Turks to not want someone to throw things at sailors who have been protecting Turkish waters against Russian incursions for 70 plus years.