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I was re-watching some of the vids put out by the vehicle manufacturers competing for the MPC/ACV/ACV 1.1 (or whatever HQMC is calling the thing these days) and I noticed that extra armor has been applied to the Havoc.
In the swim portion of the vid I caught onto the changes in the swim vane and I guess I was so focused on that portion of the vid that I missed the obvious.
Interesting.
Sidenote. Real nice how they put an AAV turret on this beast. The Yat-Yas boys must be happy as hell. They get easier cross training and almost a plug and play option for crew members if its adopted. Very nicely done LM MFC.
If they upgrade the upgunned weapons system (AAv turret) yes, the AAv community will be happy.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering what kind of hits that armor can take
Not sure about the AAV, if you mean this though I think 30mm frontal arc, 14mm all around protection(more with bolt-ons), good protection from IEDs, it has a sort of V-shaped hull and rides quiet high from the ground.
DeleteIf you want more than this then we are looking at a much heavier vehicle, probably based on a tank chasis like the russian proposal or something stupid like the GCV. Anything in between is probably pretty pointless as they can stick a 60mm cannon on this (the americans and russians both have 57mm cannons) sort of thing and punch right through anything less than that vehicle built on a tank chasis.
I hear differing things.
DeleteI read about the basic patria (14 tons) being 12.7mm resistant all around somewhere, i cannot find the link to save my ass. Although the add on armor giving 14.5mm protection is the most common. It can apparently be upgraded up to 30mm, which is quite excellent for an armored APC.
Im willing to bet that it is 14.5mm protective, because it it cannot feasibly have amphibious capability with 30mm protection (that version weighs 29-30 tons). I could be wrong though.
It looks like upfloating not uparmoring project they are adding volume for it to swim better. European amphibius vehicles are designed to cross rivers so might lack a bit of buoyancy for the surf.
ReplyDeleteThe version on the left? Yeah it was the same that was showing it's swimming capability in last vid they put. Displacement package for sure.
DeleteHey sol, have you ever given thought to posting some of your ideas for weapons, vehicles and ships with the intention of letting the comments discuss the merits and foreseeable problems. The goal would be to create workable concepts that, atleast theoretically would work. I know I have many ideas I would like reviewed and the comments seem like a good resource. Just a thought, take it or leave it.
ReplyDeleteFor a new generation armored vehicle be it wheeled or tracked, I wouldnt even think of putting that old AAV turret on top. That turret doesnt have electric elevation; no stabilization (forget about firing on the move and expect to hit...); and the the weapons .50cal and 40mm grenade launcher would not be my first choice in todays standards.
ReplyDeleteI would think about a modern one man or unmanned turret - not a Remote Weapon Station where you have no access to the guns from inside the vehicle and everything is open to the environment). I would put a modern sight system with built-in stabilization and put a modern electric drive system to have better dynamic performance and good stabilizaion quality.
Finally put ATK's M230LF light 30mm auto-cannon (a derivative of the AH-64 Apache gun) as the primary armament. That little cannon would have the combined lethality of the .50cal and 40mm and plus much more...
I think you are right. I've always argued that 50 caliber and 40mm for APC, or AAV, armaments is rather long in the tooth. A 1960s throwback.
DeleteNow the Russians have always had something going on with their 14.5mm KPV, something the west never grasped beyond prototype concepts. The aforementioned 30mm you mentioned, combined with stabilization, would be more than adequate. The ammunition flexibility with that gun makes it very attractive.
-2 mil dispersion
-4m kill radius for HEDP
-commonality with 30mm ammunition and M230 for parts
-160 lbs
-small area
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003gun/lam.pdf
Not a perfect weapon, but steps above the M2 and Mk 19 IMO.