The effort to sell the F-35 as being the ultimate solution to all airpower needs continues. Check this out from AOL Defense.
“I can see a scenario where you’ve got an F-35 orchestrating an attack with 20 RPAs [remotely-piloted aircraft] that are weapons-equipped and that F-35, with all its sensors and communications, is essentially an orchestrator,” she says.One pilot, in one airplane, is going to be able to "orchestrate an attack" with up to 20 drones?
Can you say pilot overload?
This sounds like an AWACs mission that they're trying to push down to a single seat platform.
It smacks of desperation....and lunacy.
The death spiral is here and the comments by officials are only confirming the sweat flop that coming from Lockheed Martin, the program office, the USMC and USAF.
Highlights another major "fault" with the F-35, no 2-seater version, unlike the ASH F-18/Growler or even F-15 Strike versions.
ReplyDeleteShhh, there is nothing wrong with a single seater bomber... Next you will point out its bad rear and underneath RCS and vulnerability to modern SAM systems, and the horrible RCS you get when you load the wings up with the extra AMRAAMs you need....
DeleteOh I probably meant to say HARMS, but yeah HARMS and AMRAMMS and whatnot. Doesn't matter the mission, it is going to need to be loaded with external weapons because the internal weapons bays don't cut it, 2 AMRAMMS, 2x 2000IB JDAM is not going to be enough for either interdiction/bombing or Interception/air-patrol missions.
DeleteI like the 1 to 20 ratio... The USAF is really doesn't get how ridiculous it justifications for the F-35 program appear. I'm sure the P&W and LM plants that troll Breaking Defense will be out to shout down anybody who questions the company line.
ReplyDeleteIt gets sillier:
ReplyDelete"We fail as a Corps if we can’t connect the kill and information chains from the F-35 to the Lance Corporal rifleman in the meeting engagement of the future battlefield."
--Lieutenant General John M. Davis, the Deputy Commandant for Aviation, interviewed here.
yeah i read that bullshit and had to grab a triple shot of bourbon to get that "stupid" out of my eyeballs after reading their brand of crazy. SLD is just batshit crazy and seem to think that all the Pentagon-speak they use is cool.
Deletepersonally i've never met the bastards but someone needs to do a journalistic intervention before they're dumped in the bin of pure propaganda machine bought and paid for by LM and personal dick suckers for the airwing of whatever force is buying the F-35.
That would be author Robbin F. Laird -- "Dr. Laird is a senior analyst for Gryphon Technologies’ national-security program. He has worked and written widely on global maritime and defense issues for more than 30 years." Last year Laird authored "Game Changer: The F-35 and the Pacific -- To understand the real value of the F-35 one must consider its operation as a fleet, not simply as an individual aircraft."
DeleteAnd (you guessed it) Gryphon Technologies is tight with Lockheed.
CHERRY HILL, N.J., April 17, 2014 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) was awarded a $17.4 million contract for systems engineering and integration services in support of the U.S. Navy's Combat System Warfare Federated Tactical Systems (SWFTS). SWFTS manages and oversees all technical products integrated into submarine combat systems. Under the contract, a Lockheed Martin-led team will provide end-to-end systems engineering, development test, integration and life cycle support for all in-service U.S. Navy submarine combat systems, as well as for systems that will be delivered to the new Virginia Class submarines. The contract is funded for the first year and includes multiple options and award terms for up to ten years. Team members include General Dynamics Electric Boat; Anteon Corporation; Progeny Systems Corporation; Gryphon Technologies, LC; ASSETT, Inc.; and North Carolina A&T State University.
and thats the shame of it. Laird has a great reputation but he's whore'd himself out to LM for the modern equivalent of 30 bits of silver. he knows better i'm sure. that along with his fondness for pentagon speak has me basically boycotting their website. a guy can only take so much. the only thing that keeps me rotating back is that they get interviews with the idiots at HQMC. other than that they're useless...as are the idiot talking heads in HQMC!
DeleteActually they are scurrying around trying to find a role for this expensive Flying Brick. It would not be good at any combat roles so they come up with this eye-in-the-sky baloney. The more they talk, the deeper the hole will get. For example, as CharleyA has commented at AOL, with a force multiplier like this, they would only need a few.
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/pbSJSDWDUS0
ReplyDeletei dont get this, if F35 can do this (controlling drones) then surely a 2 seater aircraft like Advanced Super Hornet or F15E or even B1 or B2 can also handle drone 'orchestration' .. why this function have to be tied into just F35 ? same with DAS/EO system that i think can also be applied to any plane imaginable including even a Tucano if they so wished..
ReplyDeleteBecause only the F35 has the Tri-Luminous Fluxless Capacitor that makes this magic possible.
Deleteso an 88mph minimum take off speed then , i presume
DeleteNo its a special Lockhead Martin sticker made in all 51 states, it only works if you give the right Senator members lots and lots of campaign donations.
DeleteThey are just trying to catch up with the Boeing ideas now that is public the F22 was detected by the Chinese and the J-31 by the Russian and the Americans
ReplyDeletehttp://m.military.com/daily-news/2012/06/08/super-hornets-could-launch-their-own-uavs.html
http://youtu.be/4zB0ZxBurRc
F-16I made for Israel have 2 pilot configuration for that exact reason. And these are modified F16 we are talking about, they are not as fancy as F-35 obviously.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Sol, check this out : http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1946689.html
Thats some interesting military equipment movements, and some of them happen less than 200km from the Russian border.
Its actually a pilots paradise, just mark targets and watch drones eliminating them, from a safe distance of course.
ReplyDeleteif you're going that route then an AWACS would be a better platform to operate from....or a G650. why tie up the few F-35s that you have with such a mission? unless you're trying to justify its existence.
Deletehave you noticed that they're no longer even trying to push the speed, range, stealth argument anymore? its all about sensor fusion and nothing else! why? because its so fucking fuzzy no one can properly refute it until some flag officer makes a stupid statement like this one that even a ground pounder can see is full of shiite.
How unmanned is unmanned, Saab said in a comment that there is a need for 50 people and 6 trucks to operate the "unmanned" as compared to the manned Gripen that needs 5 men and one truck plus the pilot.
ReplyDeleteWere to place them in the F-35, the bomb-space..?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/547086/RAF-s-150million-stealth-fighter-jet-could-shut-down-after-overheating-fears
ReplyDeleteThermal balance is an important consideration in so-called "more electric aircraft" of the stealth variety. --from briefing charts:
DeleteThermal Balance and Thermal Deficit
--Increased emphasis on lO has led to far fewer ram air openings
--Created greater reliance on fuel as the primary heat sink
--Heat returned to fuel tank leads to thermally induced operating limits
--Fuel tank temperatures can vary widely during mission profiles
More electric Aircraft Gen 1 -- F-35
--Electric Engine Start
--Electric Primary Flight control
--PTMS (Power and Thermal Management System)
--Reduced RAHX availability due to LO
--Fueldraulic actuators for thrust vectoring
and nozzle area control
--High-pressure fuel pumps produce large
contribution to total heatload
--Increased avionics power creates higher
ECS loop demand; this is low-quality heat
2,400-mile Made Flight Made By Drone Bombers
ReplyDeleteSchenectady Gazette - Aug 7, 1946
The F35 with 20 UAVs is just wishful thinking's
ReplyDeleteThe reality is closer to the navy approach
"U.S. Navy’s senior aviation planner stressing that the service’s force will rely mainly on the Boeing Super Hornet and Growler throughout the 2030s, with the F-35C being an “enhancement” to a mostly F/A-18E/F and EA-18G force."
http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/marines-propose-rapidly-mobile-f-35-operations
...until the mid-2020s when several air wings will include an F-35 squadron.
DeleteIt would be better with two warm bodies, but
ReplyDeleteSensor Fusion is where its at.
Option 1
A pilot of an F35 flys over a target, finds a target with his targetting pod, locks it, drops a paveway from his bomb bay and flys away.
The targetting pod keeps a lock of the target and the paveway rides the laser beam down to the target, boom, dead bad guys.
A pilot of an F35 flys over a target, finds a target with his targetting pod, locks it, drops a paveway from his **drones** bomb bay and flys away.
The targetting pod keeps a lock on the target and the paveway rides the laser beam down to the target, boom, dead bad guys.
Option 2
An F35 pilots radar picks up a blip, he tells it to take a closer look. Judges the target to be a threat, launches an AMRAAM from his missile bay, which flies to the target and blows it up.
An F35 pilots radar picks up a blip, he tells it to take a closer look. Judges the target to be a threat, launches an AMRAAM from his **drones** missile bay, which flies to the target and blows it up.
Neither of those are particularly giant leaps in technology, if they are leaps at all.
Mounting jamming pods on drones rather than the parent aircraft might be bigger leap? Dont really know how they function.
Having a SRAAM drone fly headfirst at the F35 for a shot against an aggressor on the F35s rear is probably much more complicated
Building (10,000 affordable) drones that can keep pace with an F35 is likely much harder than providing firing solutions and station keeping instructions to them.
(Thinking heavily influenced by Pinnaces and Ghost Tactics from The Praxis trilogy)
what you're saying doesn't make any sense. one pilot is not only going to monitor his own airplane but up to 20 drones? we don't even ask one drone pilot to monitor multiple drones at one time! even if they become hyper automated this is a task better left to airborne or at sea controllers rather than some rookie JG flying over indian country while trying to herd UAVs!
Deletesensor fusion is just combining all the information from what we get from pods, head up displays etc...we're doing that TODAY!!!!!! its nothing new!!!!!! STOP ACTING LIKE THIS IS A GAME CHANGER BECAUSE ITS NOT! all it is doing is combining information, not developing new ways of gathering that info.
this is all bullshit. we're suppose to believe that information will defeat systems instead of missiles? oh and please tell me about the F-35's electronic attack capability and how it can do the same job that the EA-18 can! its all bullshit and the US Navy is basically telling everyone that it is by their procurement plans.!
"one pilot is not only going to monitor his own airplane but up to 20 drones?"
DeleteNo, one pilot is going to monitor his own aircraft, 20 drones will monitor the pilot and maintain their position within a pre programmed formation (or set of formations), a second airman would be much more capable of altering formations on the fly, but for our purposes, the pilot just flies, the drone tracks the aircraft and stays in its assigned formation box.
"sensor fusion is just combining all the information from what we get from pods, head up displays etc...we're doing that TODAY!!!!!! its nothing new!!!!!! STOP ACTING LIKE THIS IS A GAME CHANGER BECAUSE ITS NOT! all it is doing is combining information, not developing new ways of gathering that info."
It is and it isnt,
The tech isnt new, but officers who "grew up" using it are.
And thats the difference, its the difference between shoe horning technology in to the old way of operating, and adopting the way of operating to fit current (or last generations) technology.
A Hornet could do this equally well, better because it has that second pilot who.
"this is all bullshit. we're suppose to believe that information will defeat systems instead of missiles? oh and please tell me about the F-35's electronic attack capability and how it can do the same job that the EA-18 can! its all bullshit and the US Navy is basically telling everyone that it is by their procurement plans.!"
I can if you want but its a bit early for fantasy.
"Orchestrate" is the wrong word perhaps, drones are going to be stuck either maintaining a fixed point relative to the parent aircraft, or following a preprogrammed flight path, or a mix of the two, follow aircraft to waypoint x and then carry out this flght path, then follow aircraft back home.
They arent going to be actively piloted, ever, they will never dogfight under the remote control of the F35 pilot
But theres no reason shortly after take off they cant form up in a rough sphere around the parent, and be ordered to switch to a sphere with the parent at peak, or front, or bottom, or a sphere 500ft to the right of the parent ect, acting as a semi sacrificial munitions / fuel / chaff / flares carrier.
Interesting since the F-35 is unlikely to survive emerging (and some existing) threats.
DeleteDamn, Lockheed's lobbying must have gone through.
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/eAq3UMYkvlI