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via Investors Business Daily.
The battle for stealth is heating up with China boasting that its J-31 stealth fighter can out-fly Lockheed Martin's (NYSE:LMT) F-35, according to the president of Aviation Industry Corp of China on Tuesday."When it takes to the sky, it can definitely take it down," Lin Zuoming said on China Central Television in reference to the F-35, according to Reuters. "That's a certainty."Read the entire article here.
China wants to make its version of the stealth fighter available to countries that don't have access or the money for the F-35, which is the Pentagon's costliest weapons program.
Should we be worried? No. Should we be aware? Definitely. But we've been here before. After the Vietnam War the United States pulled its head out of the jungle, looked around and saw that the Soviet Union had "better" fighters.
What did we do?
We honed tactics. We developed better missiles. We designed world beating aircraft.
We can do it again.
But first we have to kill the albatross from Lockheed Martin called the F-35.
I think you should start a new blog Solomon. You could call it "Die F-35 Die" judging by the near unanimous venom most of the comments on this blog (including mine) have. The Su-35 entry has 86 replies of which 2/3 are just hating on the F-35.
ReplyDeleteThat said, the real question of J-31 vs F-35 are:
A) the stealth coatings as good? I suspect "yes" because they would be the same ones on the stealth Blackhawk crashed in the Bin Laden raid, whose pieces Pak gave to China.
B) how is the manueverablity, speed, and thrust to weight? In other words can it dogfight? The -35 lacks both agility and high speed. It can climb and dive relatively ok.
c) I think it is safe to assume the radar/sensors are better on the F-35....when it works and assuming it's not jammed or the ROE lets you use it.
Can just about guarantee that F-18 is faster, more maneuverable, and has a better Radar than the J-31. Even if the J31 is hard to detect, the new E-3C might be able to find it and vector a F-18 in on it. If the J31 (or F35) turns on a powerful radar, that will definitely be detectible and give away it's direction if not it's actual position...
The biggest question being if the SPY-1 can detect it. If a Flight IIA Burke can detect it, it can kill it. Rumor has it that the latest can detect the F-22 further away than any other radar. Notice I say "further away". Stealth isn't radar invisible just harder to detect and at closer ranges.
I am amazed where the love for F18 e/f comes form is something cobled up to avoid having to run a tender and have a flyoff ,when they say it super maneuverable at low speed people seem to overlook that what it meant is speed way bellow what dogfights are fought at. Like it or not Hornet is handicaped by having to meet low speed needs for carrier ops . Sort ot like F35C
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRHEFlz95VA#t=619
Quote at cca 10min mark.
“It (F18 E/F)handles air-to-air with technology, not with speed and acceleration.The same thing that makes it a great short-field airplane, makes it not a very fast airplane. It’s got a fat wing.”
You can stuff technology in 50 y old planes and you are able to handle the technology air to air but when all bets are off a superior airframe is nice to have and F18 e/f is not one.
Solomon, you'll probably love this one:
ReplyDeletehttp://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-run-on-warm-gas-from-a-fuel-truck-that-sa-1668120726
On this stage this FC-31 is inferior to the F-35. Read some of the analysis on the web on the juhai fc-31 performance ;)
ReplyDelete"When it takes to the sky,"
ReplyDeleteShots fired.
indeed. with confidence comes arrogance unless you're careful and the chinese are becoming increasingly confident.
DeleteTin foil hat time... Maybe the Chinese are conspiring with our MIC to scare our policy makers to sink more money into more weapons development!
Deleteyou do know i have stock in foil just to keep me stocked in hats don't you? so yeah, i considered that. but this statement gives impetus to trash the program and work on 6th gen more than keeping the F-35 going.
DeleteThe reading of the 6th gen tacair program does not fill me with confidence either TBH, totally new tech engines and laser weapon. So what happens if the laser does not deliver? Toothless plane? Or worse, the new adaptive engine? Pilot gets out and push?
DeleteI'm starting to really think the US has a habit of overreaching on the technology front. Why not Keep It Simple, Stupid until the tech really matures *THEN* put it into planes rather than reach for something that is speculative yet so critical that if it fails, the plane becomes an overpriced paperweight? Oh wait, I forgot, research funds... no one can blame manufacturers if they spent another few billion on research that didn't pan out...
@Tin foil hat time... Maybe the Chinese are conspiring with our MIC to scare our policy makers to sink more money into more weapons development!@
DeleteBggg. I can foresee that Russian Armata-Boomerang-Kurganec project will play the same role soon. I smell it will be our full analog of the F-35 epopee.
Considering that FC-31 is a low priority export item i wouldn't be to worried about it but F-35 is conceptualy so flawed that it can't avoid being dragged trough mud a bit more . That VTOL internal fan dictates so much of the design eyes hurt.
ReplyDeleteHow much did the Chinese get from Yu Long? What the Chinese need most are engines. Defense News wrote an article today about Mr Long stealing titanium engine technology.
ReplyDeleteBased on my readings on J-31, this is not a jet that could kill an F-35.
ReplyDeleteHowever, China will buy Su-35 and J-20 which can kill F-35s, so the F-35 is pretty much useless against counter-China warfare unless equipped with the AESA Meteor missile.
BTW, one should be wary of taking everything Chinese say at a full faith value, because exaggeration is a part of Chinese cultural custom. For example, it was learned that body armor is still not a standard issue equipment of the PLA soldiers.
http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/26469/20141207/u-s-outspends-china-10-to-1-on-equipping-soldiers-u-s-military-budget-china-military-budget-ministry-of-defense-military-equipment.htm
While the U.S. soldiers are equipped with kneepads, elbow pads, mask and wind glasses, in addition to helmets, gas masks and body armor, PLA soldiers have to make do with far less.
"Body armor? I do not know if our unit has that. Currently our company does not give it to us," a company commander told the Ministry of Defense.
Body armor is essential for combat soldiers as statistics show that stray bullets and shrapnel cause 80 percent of all battlefield deaths. With the body armor, stray bullets and shrapnel can be effectively blocked, lowering that rate to 58 percent.
Slow, they don't care, after all, it's only a 20% increase, they can toss more bodies at the problem. So you think they are even getting body armour?
DeleteWhat would a J-31 cost?
ReplyDeleteIt should be a lot less expensive than the $185 million unit procurement cost of F-35A as seen here.
One thing the mistaken F-35 concurrency program has illustrated, that is manufacturing aircraft while the system is still in development, is that the thing will cost too damned much.
For those who claim that the J-31 isn't actually a proven aircraft yet, neither is F-35 which still an unproven air vehicle in the middle of development, after thirteen years.
In other news, China now has a larger economy than the U.S.
At this point in time it appears we don't have that much to worry about.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2014-11-17/chinas-fc-31-fighter-disappoints-first-display
but they did a flight display this early in the program. consider that the F-35 only did its first flight show after 12 or more years in development! they're making remarkable progress. additionally since it is in demonstration form we don't know what type of flight restrictions this guy was operating under.
Deletelong story short. i consider the story more hope than reality. if any of you aviation guys want to correct me, i stand ready to hear your arguments.
More F-35 problems. The F-35's engine cooling system, which uses fuel to cool the engine, fails the fuel temperature exceeds 110 degree.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/air-base-prepares-case-f-35-cant-take-hot-fuel-n264876
Air Base Prepares in Case F-35 Can't Take Hot Fuel
The Air Force reported that crews at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona were wondering if the military's expensive new state-of-the-art jet fighter might not be able to tolerate fuel that exceeds a certain temperature. This is an issue particularly important at Luke, where summer temperatures can exceed 110 degrees.
"But first we have to kill the albatross from Lockheed Martin called the F-35."
ReplyDeleteConsider it dead. Doesn't work, and costs too much.
They are putting all their eggs in the "ramp-up" basket, but they don't have the buyers to double and triple production quantities, as they sat they will do.
And that's for the A variant -- the B & C cost much more, offer less performance, --and have few foreign buyers (B) and none (C).
i totally believe that and have stated numerous times that the death spiral is already in effect. my issue with the whole thing is that its taking too long. the longer this lingers the more time we're wasting on getting on with the work of designing a 6th gen replacement and deciding on upgrades to current aircraft. additionally its tying up money that can be used for other important projects. for the sea services that means getting the ACV into production, a new nuclear ballistic sub, more amphibs, a real deal frigate instead of LCS etc...
Deletewe need this thing killed like yesterday.
We can't predict the future, but the negatives seem to be aligning for a death next year.
Delete--no fix for the engine yet, probably the flex problem is unfixable any time soon, the United Technlogy (Pratt) has resigned, and the service aircraft are still on restricted flight, including those bought by foreign governments.
--aircraft mission systems haven't been tested, meanwhile the B has been touted to be "combat capable" next year, and the fact that it isn't will be obvious to all -- a downside of the early IOC
--the cost, the cost, the cost -- covered above -- which is a big factor to kill the "ramp-up" which Bogdan has said will occur next summer. Won't happen.
--the next DOT&E test report is due Jan/Feb, and if it's like the rest it won't be good, and the behind-schedule development testing program has been significantly slowed by the engine problem, and so the operational testing can't start until 2018.
--Senator McCain gets a bigger voice in the Congress, and he knows and understands all the dirt in the mismanaged JSF program. Will all those 35s going to Arizona stifle him? I can't imagine a stifled McCain.
--The Pentagon by wasting tons of money has got itself in a financial box. It needs big money for nukes, ships and the new innovation projects, and where better to find it than the fat JSF program.
--The technocrats are taking over the Pentagon, led by Carter and Work (a 27-yr Marine vet & a thinker) and they will push new technology, which endangers the 1980s-era JSF technology with robotics etc.-- --Work's Third Offset Strategy is not JSF-favorable, particularly for the C model which affects both USN and USMC, and a cut in any quantities strongly affects a marginal JSF program.
The J-31 is more F-22 than F-35. Create aircraft that can become a problem for the F-22 in number and well, it is easy to kill the F-35, even if the F-35 was to work to spec (good luck with that).
ReplyDeleteThe unit procurement cost of the F-35A rose ten percent in tha last buy, and the rising cost of the plane is causing problems in Canada (which hasn't bought a prototype yet).
ReplyDeleteOttawa Citizen:
Rising F-35 price tag setting up tough choices, DND report suggests
A new Defence Department report says the cost of the F-35 has continued to rise, and suggests the Conservative government will face a tough choice if it goes ahead with the controversial stealth fighter.
In particular, the government may be forced to pony up an extra $1 billion or else cut back on the number of aircraft as a result of the weaker Canadian dollar, inflationary changes, and other countries slashing their own orders.
news of F-35B retrofit at Cherry Point:
ReplyDeleteFRC East enters new world with work on F-35
...Some of the earliest aircraft to leave the Lockheed Martin production line had parts that did not meet Marine Corps specifications as it relates to flight hours, for example.
“Some of the structural life has got hard stop points, and without us doing the modifications, the aircraft can’t fly beyond those points,” Clark said.
In a 24-hour, multi-shift schedule, more than 120 FRC East mechanics, engineers and other workers have completed work on seven planes and seven are currently undergoing work... between 12,000 and 15,000 man hours are needed for the modification work on one F-35, and that doesn’t include time put in by support staff.//
Comment: The most rigorous testing of the F-35 with spec software hasn't been done yet.
Well assuming it actually works, which I do not doubt, it actually is better than the F35 isn't it. I mean it's got two reasonable engines, has a higher thrust-to-weight ratio than the F35, probably a lower RCS (at least from the sides and bottum since the F35 is a whale) and resembles much closer the F22 in design philosophy.
ReplyDeleteAnd it was probably designed to win wars and not make money for a company like LM.