Simple question. Is the Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company (ANGLICO) concept dead? Everyone and their mother can call for fires now and its no longer a mystic art held by only a few. JTACs dot the land side in all the services and in allied forces as well. Does a Marine Corps that is being reduced to levels that are obscene, while at the same time shedding combat power in favor of its air arm doing itself any favor by maintaining a unit whose time has passed? Is it wrong to consider shuttering ANGLICO and getting back an Infantry Battalion?
Do ANGLICO units work with other US units or only non-US units? How much where they used in Iraq and/or Afghanistan in the past? Are they being used or scheduled to be used in Iraq now?
ReplyDeleteI really don't know. I think they might have worked with allied units in the first Gulf War but everyone is operating pretty much off the same playbook so i haven't seen them doing real world ops in quite a while.
DeleteHopefully someone active can chime in and fill us in on the details. if the info changes then so should my theory. i wouldn't mind running a line thru the entire paragraph IF f i'm proven wrong.
It would seem to make sense to to make sure the functionality is in regular units and re-allocate the manpower slots.
DeleteANGLICO supports MARSOC, allies, and special types. They have been a very hot commodity. The days of JFOs and non-JTACS calling in air (like Iraq 2004-2005) are long over. No Commander wants to have a non-JTAC controlling drops so very few infantry and artillery officers or scouts have the practice any more. Wish we could have a little more faith in squad leaders and make ANGLICO less needed
ReplyDeletewhy would ANGLICO need to support MARSOC or SOCOM? they have their own specialist and the USAF dedicates part of their mission to Tactical Air COntrol! why would they need support for this mission! how come non JTACs can't call for fire? last i heard they were trying to make everyone that was in leadership qual'ed as fire observers or whatever. that went away too?
DeleteThe only reason you would see Anglico supporting MARSOC or SOCOM is if asked. More of the reason would be for FSCC style work in a big op with lots of moving pieces, much in the way of what we did with MARSOC in 2013, freed their JTAC's to do dynamic support and less coordination and de-confliction.
Deleteas for non-jtac's, anyone can call for fire, or air support in extreme. I'll send you a email later going more into detail on the trend that moved away from non-jtac's controlling drops(kind of went away with the introduction of the enlisted jtac in the corps around 2004)
Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Companies (ANGLICO) are fire support and liaison units of the United States Marine Corps. The mission of ANGLICO is "To provide Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) Commanders a liaison capability, with foreign area expertise, to plan, coordinate, and conduct terminal control of fires in support of joint, allied, and coalition forces."[1] Per this mission statement, ANGLICOs are not designed to support U.S. Marine Corps maneuver elements. Instead, the doctrinal purpose of ANGLICO is to provide fire support and coordination in support of units adjacent to the MAGTF.
ReplyDeleteso Anglico's job is to bring Marine Fires to non-marine units (Army, Brits, Aussie, Georgians). While more and more countries have JTAC's its still a specialized job, and while lately it seems thats what ANGLICO's focus has been, they do also bring the planning expertise for all combat arms. They have been a much sought after item by all serives in Afghanistan and Iraq, the whole reason 1st, 2nd and now 5th Anglico stood back up again.
As fro having everyone be able to drop bombs....we could have this conversation all day about this, everyone can drop. What a JTAC/FAC brings actually the ability to say "Cleared Hot" and sign for that bomb off the rails. a Squad Leader can give grids, and info to a a/c and then the pilots job to get clearance...which takes time.
As for Arty, anyone can call for fire....thats just a fact of life.
The Army does not have JTAC capability on its own. At the best we get Joint Fires Observer (JFO) qualified artillerymen and scouts. Doctrinally the JTAC still has to be in the loop even for JFOs. This is one capability that I think the USMC should keep in house, just like the USMC Radio Battalions have an organic EW capability that isn't found in any other service. You can always pull a BN of paratroopers from the Army to plus up a Marine mission that really needs combat power, you can't make an ANGLICO unit appear out of the Army the same way.
ReplyDeleteHonestly Anglico really just has units already located inside a MEU blt. It's just a consolidated TACP and SfCP(shore fire control party). It really just comes down to finding Marine 0861/8002s (scout observer/jtac) and FACS who are free. That's why Anglico really has so much power. You have premade teams of just fire supporters, who should bring giant pie plates of destruction where ever they go
Deletedisagree. the USAF provides JTACs to teh 82nd and other US Army units. they're suppose to be a single source shop for SOCOM (that is if they don't have the capability inside their units already....which they should)....
Deletei stand by my assertion that its a capability that is widespread in both US and allied formations organically now.
they're suppose to be that one stop shot, and those units should have the capabilities to provide their own FSCC and Arty support, and it shouldnt be a issue bringing them under a MAGTF's fire's but time and time again we've seen the issue. Its why in Iraq and Afgan 1/2/5th Anglico's stood up, Army, and Coalition forces would not be up to par and would suffer for it.
DeleteANGLCIO really is a redundant thing, When I've evaluated their FCT teams on the hill i generally make a point to have some fun and remind them they arent special, they are still just Marines, doing Marine things. What is nice, is we see that having a pure Fire support unit, when those Marines leave and go back to a regular line company, they thrive in the FIST teams.
call it arrogance, call it just wanting to keep a unit that does good things for the marine corps, but I'll take a FCT team from 1st Anglico anyday over a TACP from the Air Force.
ok. i get that. but what would you rather have. another battalion of Marine Infantry or ANGLICO that is a force multiplier for not only the USMC but from what others have said everyone and their mother outside of the Marine Corps? isn't it time to get this skill set in every Infantry Battalion instead of having a team of specialist that don't necessarily work for the MAGTF?
Deletelet me add that if you're looking to punch tickets, get joint time in and move on then this is solid career choice. but is it good for the Marine Corps...especially when hard choices have to be made.
Deletethe Skill set that Anglico has, is already in the bn, in the form of its Co's FIST, and the BN's TACP/SFCP(for the MEU)/FSCC. Anglico does nothing but work for the MAGTF just in the form of being detached from said unit, the only reason they are attached to a non-marine unit is so the MAGTF knows a unit in its AO has fires and support from the MAGTF. The big thing about anglico is this, think about the invasion of Iraq. you had mostly marine units with marine units, army with army and brits with brits. Anglico is there so that when you have army, brits, and aussie units attached to a marine unit, they are all working together in the fire support world. Its a big piece, that many overlook, but when you have arty, himars, mortars flying in the air, you want a organization that's trained and damn good at de-conflicting that, and all those birds in the sky. Thats what Anglico does so well for other than marine corps units.
DeleteIf you take all the Anglico's including the reserve's you have maybe a BN's worth of 0861/8002/0802's/0621's. You really want to get someone back that has a huge amount of the Marine corps force?? Go after MARSOC, you have about a REG's worth of everything plus support
What's funny is hearing myself protect a organization i make fun of all the time at work for being cowboys
you're still not convincing me. MARSOC was forced and we can do nothing about it. blame the worshippers of SOCOM and their allies in the Marine Corps (a big Amos legacy) and in the Pentagon.
Deletewe can do something to reclaim a Marine unit that functions for the Marine Corps. i'm gonna do a post but consider how many units the Marine Corps operates that serve other masters. MARSOC, ANGLICO, FAST Co, MSG, you could even really add Scout Snipers and the Air Wing to that mix now.
I'm going to get a list together...a comprehensive list and see how much of the Marine Corps is out doing shit that take away boat space but don't take away the burden from Marines that are in the fleet doing the Marine thing.
the Convincing would do better if we ever meet for that beer, and talk shop. I hate doing keyboard work.
Deletehave fun with the FAST Co, as thats where im at now.
even better is all the units you've listed save the air wing, i've been apart of in some way.
dude! it wasn't an attack on the work that you or others are doing. it was questioning priorities and where we're placing them. lets get real and lets talk about FAST. if we're going to have them then they should be used properly. you have an embassy reinforcement thats hardcore and you have a bunch of shit happening at the same time then why are MEU's diverted or the fanciful SPMAGTF's created to do the job? we have that in house already. We have trouble breaking out at an overseas location then tap FAST. no need to have high speed infantry if all they're going to do is sit on the shelf.
Deleteoh and you're welcome.
for what?
for giving you the idea of writing an article for the Marine Gazette defending the idea of FAST Co and telling of ways to better utilize it. i'm guessing you could win the top prize. too much drivel and rehashing old ideas or spouting the party line if you ask me.
Didn't take it as a insult, just had a "ha!" Moment thinking about it.
DeleteWe can start a email traffic about fast. What it should be and what it gets used as
AM, The USMC RadBns are awesome, but they're not alone. I think the Army and the Navy are "getting it." I hope.
ReplyDeleteTrons Away, no, they really aren't at least the Army as I can't speak about the Navy. The Army just pushed EW under Cyber and away from "Maneuver, Fires, and Effects" (MFE) for doctrinal purposes. Whether or not that is proof positive that the Army doesn't get EW as a core competency or not is debatable, but as someone on the inside of Brigade level staffs for the last four years I can tell you that the tactical Army isn't embracing EW, or Cyber.
DeleteBut getting back to ANGLICO, I know that MARDIV staff has joint positions for Army Officers to fill, as during the 2003 invasion of Iraq it was an Army LTC who served as the division FSCO getting his joint ticket punched as part of the Goldwater-Nichols joint assignment requirements for senior officers (no joint assignment means no star in your future). Those joint jobs and liason positions are utterly critical for a joint fight.
In WWI the Marines fought under the Army 2nd ID. In Iraq a brigade of 2nd ID fought under 2nd MARDIV. Things that make us fight better together are better for National Security, and the Army can dispatch a BN size element to the USMC and get them anywhere in the world in less than 24 hours from one of the ready brigades when supported by C-17s from the USAF.
Solomon, when I wrote the US Army doesn't have any JTACs that is the truth. All of our JTAC needs must be provided by the USAF. For us any sort of CAS is always a joint fight. That is why all of our attack helicopters are considered CCA, so the pilot and the ground maneuver force can coordinate with each other without a JTAC in the loop. Since the USMC can organically support itself with JTACs, how we manage air is a bit different between the services.
ReplyDeleteSuffice to say, I don't know of anyone in the Army who has ever called for naval gunfire (I think Grenada was the last time an Army unit got Naval gunfire support), although I do know some "fisters" who have wet dreams of doing so. If we ever fight in the littoral, you can bet ANGLICO is going to be in high demand.
Naval gunfire includes Tac Air from CV's.
DeleteApril of 1972 Army troops assigned to an ARVN unit outside An Loc called for Tac Air on PAVN armor and infantry on the road and Naval Strike fighters responded from Carriers on Dixie station.
Yes, Army units have called for Naval gunfire also on Okinawa and Battleships and Cruisers responded.
Yes, I know it's happened in the past, but I don't know anyone in the service today who has actually done it, even for training. It just isn't a core competency of our fire supporters.
DeleteBack in the day, circa 1970-1974 ANGLICO was the bee's knee's.
ReplyDeleteIt used actual Pilots and arty men to operate the missions.
Is it needed now in the age of drones and satellites?
Unknown it's according to how bad shit gets in the next war.