First read this HEAVY.com article.
Next. Consider what we have seen. Two juries that failed to indict police in questionable cases.
Then. Think about the attacks on police. Quite honestly they're being attacked from all sides. Once only the Sovereign Citizen Movement was a worry. Now its expanding. We've seen trained individuals ambush police and then head to the woods (Police seem ill equipped to deal with criminals in woodland environments). This is getting worse not better.
Now. Ponder what the solution could be. Police are militarizing for big incidents but the solutions for beat cops is no where to be found. Law Enforcement is screwed. They will respond in a heavy handed fashion which will cause these types of incidents to increase.
Shit is about to get real.
Sidenote: Have you checked out the response from the Police Union? They are acting stupidly. They truly believe they're helping when all they're doing is painting a bigger target on the back of their members.
could you imagine if the attackers are moving in coordinated fashion ? with escape route and diversion and with sniper support and RPG ? the police wont stand a chance against such attack , let alone a heavily armed group performing the mumbai style attack in american cities.. heck even the (supposedly) elite indian spec ops got 'schooled' by the mumbai terrorists..
ReplyDeleteit is one thing for the police to play dress up like a real elite SOCOM operator, but did their training also matched their look/gear ?
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DeleteHow did the Indian spec ops get "schooled" in Mumbai? Yes the local police were comepltly overwhelmed but once the NSG (India's federal intervention force) were on the scene the attacks were contained and the threat eliminated despite facing an almost unprecedented situation (1000s of rooms to clear, well armed attackers, unknown number of attackers, 100s of barricaded rooms with 100s of innocent bystanders in the way.
DeleteThey did a good job all things considered.
I'm not positive bu I beleive I read somewhere Indian police carry old SMLE rifles, if they have ammo it's not much, more as a badge instead of a real weapon to use. Everyone civilian or Police depend on the people to obey the law and not kill.
DeleteThe terrorist while not numerous in these events gather at times and the street police are overwhelmed.
The two shot were sitting in their car as per SoP for the neighborhood according to the neighbors as usual since if it was their need to act it would be traffic, drugs or something simple.
No one even dreamed that some coward asshole with a mission would act.
Simply walking up and shooting them as they sat.
Schooled? No just doing their jobs as required you cannot plan or stay vigilant for this every day it will burn you out.
You are right about the SMLE rifles. And they also add to that mix another WW2 weapon- the Sten Carbine and a Browning pistol. Also the majority of our police forces are still in the colonial mindset where a baton/horse mounted charge with water cannons was enough to enforce the writ of the rulers. Modern policing is stil lan alien concept to the vast majority of our police.
DeletePolice are also hampered by not rushing to the threat, but also securing/rescuing civilians or hostages. Search and secure each room, decide whether to accompany the civilians back to a safe area or proceed on to threat.
ReplyDeleteAnd while a Mumbai attack would be difficult to stop, with the amount of Electronic/Cyber surveillance, it's would difficult to coordinate. Considering the tradecraft to get a group on the same page AND the fact most of the attacks that were staged by halfwits like the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber, etc, I think it would be improbable to carry it off without getting detected. We've been lucky after 9/11 that so many terrorists have been lamebrains.
On the other hand, a random, lone-wolf attack against a school or police officer or hospital or church is unstoppable. Unless they have an algorithm that monitors purchases of past attacker prior to an attack to try and sense when a lone-wolf is about to snap (which would be very Big Brother and troubling to most Americans), there is no way to detect when, where and how a lone-wolf attack would come.
Hell, all a guy needs is a machete and he could kill a dozen kids on a school bus before anyone could stop him. And there is nothing to stop dozens of similar attacks from happening. Unstoppable.
Look at the DC Sniper: no real planning or agenda, just a loose plan, a rifle and a vehicle.
unstoppable
Actually the new school being taught is to go to the active threat and try our best to call out where the wounded need help for the follow on officers. If there is no active shooting then we help along the way.
DeleteTony:
DeleteAgainst a trained and motivated veteran sniper going in and calling out where the wounded are is asking to be shot and used for bait.
The wounded are bait, as you go to them you become a target.
Lying quiet while the crowd of first responders gather is nothing more than a mass murder event.
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ReplyDeleteI am surprised why Solomon hasnt covered the Pakistan School Massacre yet. At first even I thought thats its just another random terror strike. Dime a dozen in Pakistan. Next news item.
ReplyDeleteAnd them I poured over the details and man......that is one big steaming dump with the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan(TTP) took on Pakistan. And they did not do this on "Pakistan" as much as they did it to the Pakistani Army. 2 very distinct entities as most people are familiar with. Now it seems the TTP has also realized the difference between the 2 entities and are proceeding accordingly.
simple. Pakistan has been playing a double game with terrorists for a long time now. its sad that children died and a person was burned alive but its there own fault. sleep with dogs you're gonna get fleas and ticks. i'm surprised you differentiate between Pakistan and its Army. i've always thought they were one and the same.
DeleteWhile its true that they are sleeping in the same bed they made as regards terror strikes, this particular one was different. And it was different on a lot of levels...least of which was the attack on children.
DeleteIts very confusing...this topic about Pakistan and its Army being a single entity or different. But the last time we entered Pakistani territory in 1971 we discovered that the 2 were seperate and seperate by a 100 miles. Granted its been decades since. But yes, I believe that their army and general population are seperate entities even today. Which is what the TTP realized and planned this attack accordingly. Had they not been seperate, the TTP could have struck at any random school if it was just a bodycount they were after. The TTP with its own limited resources and limited strike powers decided it was most prudent to attack here rather than any other place.
They struck this particular school for reason/reasons not being discussed. And that i fear is the beginning of the end for Pakistan. And thats a big topic of discussion.
well obviously i don't see it that way. additionally what insurgency that isn't state sponsored, has been successful in toppling a government? i can't think of one. insurgency are good for terrorizing communities, for pushing governments to address certain issues but they rarely succeed....that is if they're organic and not sponsored. which is why i'm suspicious of the uprisings in Egypt and Libya. those govts were toppled and apparently they insurgents had some type of outside help. Syria lingers but its because you have nations that are both supporting and opposing it.
Deletehaving said all that the question becomes. what nation is going to support the insurgents in Pakistan? no one would dare because everyone is afraid that the terrorist might get nuclear weapons. that can't be allowed. so here we are. i just don't think its that big a deal. people died and that sucks but sinking Pakistan? i just don't see it.
if terrorist got their hands on 1 nuclear weapon from pakistan , who would be their primary target ? India or Israel ?
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DeleteSolomon, agree with you on th state sponsored insurgents and toppling of Govt.s but thouth all this most of us have missed one thing. We have seen and are generally well aware of violence of the following kinds-
DeleteShia vs. Sunni
Islam in general vs. Christianity in general
Islam in general vs. Judaism in general
Islam in general vs. Hinduism and by extension Sikhism in general
Sunni (country A) vs. Sunni (Country B)
And all other types of permutations and combinations
But in Pakistan it is all of the above and one more which no one talks about or recognizes-
Sunni (Country A) vs. Sunni (Country A). Thats not a typo....you read it right...both are the same country. In this scenario one doesnt need an external state sponsorer to topple a Govt. because the victim state itself is torn right in the middle and find their sponcerors right in that country itself. It is here that violence becomes less organized and less coherent and more "tribalistic" if i can use that word or more "clan ish". The Punjabi Sunnis will have the people from the state of Punjab providing support (as is the case with Mumbai attack organizers Jamat-ud-Dawa and Hafeez Sayeed) vs. North Western Pakistani Sunnis who will support TTP or the Hakimullah Mehsuds. These organizations do not ned state sponcers because they are already being sponcered by internal citizens of these states. And that is the beginning of everything tribal.
And the moment tribal warfare starts...even though Govt.s might not get toppled, they are reduced to rump state status.
And the Pakistani Govt. is doing everything possible to ensure that this tribal violence continues and such organic insurgencies gain momentum.
All this talk about Pakistan is useless without proof so let me provide you one-
Ask any Pakistani (average citizen upto legal luminaries)....how would you define a Muslim. What is your definition of a Muslim and how would you seperate him from a Heretic ?
This is a nation which still hasnt figured out what a "Muslim" is and is waging war on their behalf against an imagined foe. That is the basis of tribal war.
Thats why this school attack stunend me.
DeleteIt was not an attack on Shias. Nor was it an attack on Hindus or Christians or Ahmadiyas or Baha'is or Bohris or anyone else liek any of those attacks before. This was a Sunni Country A vs. Sunni Country A attack. The tribes are busy organizing and reorganizing their enemies and rivals. And this time India and other "Kafirs" are not in their immediate bore sights.
Incedently Ahmadiyas have been officially branded heretics by the Supreme Court of Pakistan and are thusn ot allowed to enter any place of worship and can be arrested by the police for practicing witchcraft and satan worship or whatever. Before Malala Yousufzai won the nobel, another Pakistani had won the Nobel and he was an Ahmadiya. After the Supreme Court judgement his name was struck off as a Pakistani and his grave was also disfaced.
The Pakistan attack was on a military school in retribution for the Pak Army destroying a TTP village and many of the people in it. Your family gets destroyed by your own country and you can lose it.
DeleteThe NY assassinator had posted on social media that he would take revenge for Ferguson and Garner.
So there is some similarity here, although no two occurrences are alike.
The US-instigated wars because of 9/11? How about that.
Sarabvir, I'm not sure what you trying to say, having missed part of the debate going on in this thread. However, knowing Pakistan a little, I think what is going on right now is the latest culmination in a policy of bias and double standards that have been applied by Pakistani authorities and army ever since the invasion of Afghanistan in 2002. Officially a partner of the west, but in fact a power that's deeply schizophrenic and rooted in the misplace belief of their need for strategic that control of Afghanistan would give them over India.
DeleteYou know what they say about Pakistan ? "Most countries have an army but here you have an army that has a country" . And this army , whatever you think of the recent attack on that school, is totally corrupt and has been using financial help it gets from the west for personal gain. Anyway there's lots to be said about this country which is really a failed state in the true meaning but what I'm trying to say is that in a country that dysfunctional, the prospect of civil war in the form of the powers that be against at least part of its population, especially in tribal territories, is now more likely then ever. The U.S. responsibility in this development would call for a longer reply but I'm pretty sure Pakistan did a great job sabotaging itself even without US involvement.
What I am trying to say is-
Delete1.) This attack is different. Its not your random act of violence for violence/terrorising society's sake.
2.) That this attack is a sign of things to come where its not about Sunni's vs. Shias or anyone else but Sunni's vs. Sunni's of that same country.
3.) The world if it has to deal with this situation better and be more prepared for the worst that it must now start planning with the foresight that Pakistan will cease to exist as a conventional Nation State.
4.) Regardless of insurgents recieving support from the external countries.....these existing insurgents in Pakistan will countinue in their best efforts to topple/eradicate the current Govt. Structure. There is going to be an even more brutal wave of tribal war which is going to hit that country.
5.) Again and i say it with the utmost importance- This was not a run of the mill terrorist attack that we have grown so accustomed to see and requires a deeper thought and deliberate discussion. Certainly more than that media fanned north korean movie.
Pakistan is interested in Afghanistan because it doesn't want India tohave an ally that could threaten Pakistan on either side AND because it has ethnic Pashtuns on either side of the border. It needs to be interested in Afghanistan.
DeleteBut the Army and ISI made a pact with Satan when they embraced Islamic fanatics as the vanguard against India and later the Soviets and the US. They sowed the wind and they are reaping the whirlwind.
If the terrorist in Pakistan got a nuke the first victims would be in Islamabad and they will be the center of the Pakistani government.
DeleteThe absolute first victims of any deliberate atomic attack by Muslims will be on fellow Muslims.
Shia vs Sunni, apostate vs apostate, Saudi or Iranian.
Zebra Dun-
DeleteAhh, finally someone is thinking like me. Except for 1 thing. The last time a Shia vs. sunni attack happened in Pakistan....it was waaay back. But the number of Sunni vs. Sunni acts of violence have been coming and going with a rather ferocious frequency in Pakistan.
Pakistan is going down. This is another step in a full on Tribal fight for survival and dominance within the same faction of the same religion in the same country.
Hey Sol other than the Police union up there going after the Mayor have they done something else I haven't heard about?
ReplyDeleteSad story but considering the number of angry numb nuts with access to weapons and looking for a reason or excuse to shoot at cops, one couldn't but be concerned something like this might actually happen. Hard part is you can't tell where and when unless there are some really telling signs.
ReplyDeleteAbsence of indictment and inflammatory speeches by some public figures played it's part as well I suppose.
As for him speaking Arabic, I don't think so ... More like he read the translation in English of the Koran.
The recent case in France is much more telling from the Islamic terrorism angle: 20 year old, born in Burundi, converted to Islam storming police station armed with knive and shouting Allah u Akbar ... 3 officers injured before he was shot dead.
Maryland gun laws state:
DeleteIt is unlawful for any person to sell or transfer a regulated firearm to a person whom he knows or has reasonable cause to believe:
Is under 21.
Has been convicted of a disqualifying crime.
Is a fugitive from justice.
Is a habitual drunkard.
Is addicted to a controlled dangerous substance (habitual user).
Suffers from a mental disorder and has a history of violent behavior against himself or another.
Has been confined to a facility for more than 30 days for the treatment of a mental disorder.
Is a respondent against whom a current non ex parte civil protective order has been entered under.
If under the age of 30, has been adjudicated delinquent by a juvenile court for an act that would be a disqualifying crime if committed by an adult.
Is visibly under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
Is a participant in a straw purchase.
For transactions occurring on or after January 1, 2002, has not completed a certified firearms safety training course conducted free of charge by the Police Training Commission or that meets the standards of the Police Training Commission.
Georgia states pretty much the same.
New York state and City have the most strictest gun laws in the nation.
As for speech, the asshole made it clear his intentions before hand to the point Maryland warned NYC about him.
He actually shot a woman before he went to NYC.
How much more warning did Atlanta, Maryland and NYC need?
In the Big Apple--
ReplyDeleteThe president of the NYPD union slammed Mayor Bill de Blasio in reaction to the deaths of two officers who were ambushed and gunned down in their patrol car in broad daylight Saturday in Brooklyn.
"There's blood on many hands tonight," Patrolman's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch said late Saturday. "Those that incited violence on this street under the guise of protest, that tried to tear down what New York City police officers did everyday.
"We tried to warn it must not go on, it cannot be tolerated," Lynch continued. "That blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor."
No, Just a Narcissistic vain psychopath with a desire to murder.
ReplyDeleteHe spoke of fighting with a panhandler before discovering they both were Muslims, then they went and had a beer together.
WTF?
Muslims? Beer?
He shot his girl friend prior to leaving Maryland, was she a Jew, white, or Asian, Hispanic, perhaps she was uncovered?
This clown had a history of petty crime in Atlanta, Fulton County Jail records show Brinsley was booked into the jail nine times between 2004 and 2010. The offenses include simple battery, disorderly conduct, theft by shoplifting, criminal trespass, carrying a concealed weapon, possession of a knife during the commission of a felony, possession of marijuana, simple battery, and terrorist threats.
I imagine the Mosque and the real Muslims he contacted told him where the door was fast enough because he was just a loser and an asshole, who actually thought he was something more than that and used the Garner/Brown events as his reason to kill. Most likely his escape did not go according to his plan and with no way out he blew his idiot brains out.
Too bad he didn't do that after he had his beer with a fellow Muslim.
Not a terrorist just a loser.
you bring up several important points that i'd love to dig into but i can't because i despise being tossed in with people that don't necessarily have my values, my experience, my training, have not made the same sacrifices nor enjoyed the real joys that my life and life style have brought me.
Deletebut one day i'll get over the discomfort and a real talk will be had about the dangers of what i see as an attempt to not only take over and control what should be peaceful protests, the impoverished, the criminal elements and underclass in our society by extremist both at home and overseas. additionally when you have law enforcement talk about peaceful protests as being a flashpoint for the violence that we saw committed against these officer, quite honestly my blood boils. would you rather have a repeat of ferguson or is it actually in keeping with our laws for citizens to protest? please mr. policeman make up your fucking mind.
until i can figure out how we can have the discussion without someone delving into false claims of genetic, racial or any other superiority it will remain off the table...i am not an exception. possibly not the rule but definitely not an exception.