The parsing is becoming annoying when it comes to terrorist acts by ISIS members in the West.
Which leads to the question. When does a lone wolf become an ISIS operative? When does a disenfranchised person, who is acting on behalf of ISIS, become an ISIS operative?
We saw the events in Canada. What was the take by the talking heads? The people committing the horrendous acts weren't ISIS, just lone gunmen acting on behalf of ISIS. We're seeing the same dynamic play out in Australia.
But consider. We have a lunatic from Iran that is taking up the ISIS banner, while at the same time ISIS is beheading members of his religious sect!
Isn't it time to simply call these people what they are? If they claim ISIS then we should consider them ISIS.
Which brings up the next issue.
Do you remember...the beheading in Oklahoma, the hatchet attack in New York, the assault in Canada, the mass killing at Ft Hood...we're seeing not a spat of lone wolves but a new form of terrorism.
I will conceal carry everywhere, everyday. Whether its allowed by law or not.
He wasn't a lone wolf or member of ISIS or ISIL (or whatever the media decided to call them today). He was a well known Charlaton, faith healer, murder suspect and serious disturbed individual to tried to make a point and died in a hail of police bullets. As a Sydneysider I ask that you don't build this individual up into anything more than he was.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.watoday.com.au/nsw/sydney-siege-gunman-man-haron-monis-was-on-bail-for-40-sexual-assault-charges-and-accessory-to-murder-20141215-127u1e.html
P.S. He didn't display the ISIS or ISIL banner. He displayed the Black Standard. Something that has been in the public domain long before ISIS/ISIL came into being and can even be found on the Saudi Arabian national flag.
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard#mediaviewer/File:Flag_of_Jihad.svg
so what you're saying is that we ignore what this guy is saying himself. you're saying that we ignore the fact that he asked for an ISIS flag. you're saying that we ignore all that and focus on his past criminal acts?
Deletewhy can't we accept that he has a criminal background and in this instance acted on behalf of ISIS to terrorize the people of Australia?
why do you insist that we totally wall off one act from the other? if he had gone to syria, come back and committed the same act would that make him ISIS? he is telling us that he is ISIS so why do you deny him telling us his motivations?
in reply to your second. i didn't say that he displayed an ISIS flag. i said that he requested one.
DeleteI stand by my statement. There is also no proof that he acted for, on behalf of or even with ISIS / ISIL in mind. He was a deranged individual, nothing more, nothing less.
Deletethen you're simply ignoring facts and globing onto hope.
DeleteI don't think that anybody is building up this individual. Even if he claims to be a member of ISIS or wants to act on their behalf, does it make him a knight in shining armour ? A defender of Islam ? No it only makes him an affiliate of a Gang of murderers rapists and thugs ... That's hardly talking him up.
DeleteOne has to ask questions about his motivations background and curriculum if we want to avoid making similar mistakes in the future.
That being said, I don't think he's a member of ISIS, he's a self radicalized, mentally instable and criminal individual, but that didnt make him any less dangerous and particularly unpredictable, especially when you consider that he has a religious background that should make him a mortal enemy of ISIS
ok Hecate. then what is the criteria for labeling a person a member of ISIS?
DeleteSol, I'm pretty sure being Shia disqualifies you from being a member of ISIS and earns you beheading just like you and I.
Deletenot if that person that is born Shia renounces his religion and converts. how do you think so many Westerners are accepted to fight for ISIS!
DeleteFormally becoming a member of ISIS is very difficult. Most djihadis going to Syria fight only for small groups with no ISIS affiliation and get picked only after they have proven their value on battle field or during massacres.
DeleteLots of those who come back and say they've been with ISIS don't even know they have just been fighting for a sub contractor of ISIS. Now it nevertheless is true that there certainly might be true ISIS members going back to their country of origin and waiting to be activated by ISIS central.
Where I agree with you SOL, is that it doesn't make a difference wether some lunatic is actually part of ISIS or just claims to be ... He can do just as much damage.
In this instance it's pretty obvious this guy wanted to look like the real deal: he picked a flag that has an inscription not just on flag of Saudi arabia but black banner used by numerous Islamic groups ... Then he realizes his mistake and ask for the version of the "Chahada" as it's written on ISIS flag. He also wears a bandana around his head with the name of the Prophet inscribed on it.
So to me it's obvious this guy wanted to make a statement saying he acts on behalf of ISIS which is good enough a reason for me to consider him part of them.
To quote "the departed": when you decide to be something you can be it. You can be a cop or a criminal ... But when you're facing a loaded gun what's the difference?"
you're still evading the question and making statements that i can find no corroborating evidence of. specifically that its difficult to become a member of ISIS. that most Westerners that have gone to fight for ISIS are instead fighting for subcontractors.
Deletei find nothing that proves your point on those issues.
additionally you're still evading the main issue. what does it take to be called a member of ISIS?
Not trying to evade your question but there are grey areas that are not easy to talk openly about if you catch my drift. Lack of corroborating evidence has two reasons: 1) what western intelligence knows about ISIS, they dont want to publicize too much, 2) we don't know that much about ISIS from humint sources because they are very difficult to penetrate.
DeleteCan send you a mail though with what I gathered about them from discussions with friends/colleagues - no OPSEC involved - if you interested but afraid it won't amount to a lot. But I can try and answer the last question you were asking.
He still acted on behalf of the religion of peace. He was affiliated with the goals of islamist terrorism as one of his demands was to get one of those flags. Following the goals of these organisations is all it takes. The threat organisations publish their goals through various media. They depend on someone picking up those goals and acting on them. There doesn't have to be any direct connection in a traditional sense.
ReplyDeleteWhen you are using it as an excuse to strip people of their civil liberties and forever change the way your society operates. The new 'anti-terror' laws have nothing to do with that, it is about granting legal immunity to the secret police and keeping their illicit activities a secret.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations. We are probably on the same page. However, reasonable security would have helped. Example: Not let just anyone into the country to live here. Don't let people involved in actions that include murder to just roam the streets.
ReplyDeleteHere is an interesting piece of info from one of the hostages.... "Ms Mikhael, who has previously worked for NSW Police and had earlier run her her own fitness business, posted on her own Facebook page from inside the café yesterday afternoon, documenting the ordeal as gunman Man Haron Monis grew increasingly threatening.
“Dear friends and family,” she began.
“I’m at the Lindt Café at Martin Place being held hostage by a member of the ISI. The man who is keeping us hostage has asked for small and simple requests and none have been met.
“He is now threatening to start killing us. We need help right now. The man wants the world to know that Australia is under attack by the Islamic State."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/sydney-siege-three-dead-as-police-storm-martin-place-cafe/story-fnqxbywy-1227157535618?utm_source=The%20Australian&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=74532089
what's the chance australian law enforcement will increase surveillance on their middle eastern population / moslem population on the wake of this shooting ? whats the chance of another mumbai like attack by trained and organized group in western cities bearing the ISIS flag , like the one that nearly happened in checnya few days ago ?
ReplyDeleteWell first off, the guy had no real justification to be out on the street. He had a long rap sheet that included involvement in murder (on bail) and abuse (on bail). Traditionally Australia has a weak judiciary. You can get a small amount of years for manslaughter (18 months) that would be 15-20 years in some U.S. States. Similar scale for murder. The Judiciary here sucks donkey balls when it comes to handing out punishment for serious crimes. The guy had no business being out on the streets. Where (in this gun-phobic society) did he get a gun? And so on. So right off the bat, before even entertaining an idea of looking at a certain community, had there been a sane judicial system, the guy would be behind bars. You can say in part, that the government was responsible for getting those two innocent people killed.
ReplyDelete@When does a lone wolf become an ISIS operative? When does a disenfranchised person, who is acting on behalf of ISIS, become an ISIS operative?@ When he is recieving orders or support from ISIS, the problem is to prove how disenfranched he was. Terrorist Attacks like the Boston Marathon Bombings or the Utoya shootings seem like lone wolf at first but they start reeking of terrorist organization or at least non directed resistance after some time. But after all Lone Wolf is just an academic term, it shouldnt disuade us from killing the bastards.
ReplyDelete