Watch the video first.
Now check this out from Mediatite.
The jury cleared him of wrongdoing, and this week also saw the release of dash cam video showing Morrison breaking down moments after he fatally shot Ramirez. In the video, you can hear him breathing heavily as colleagues try to calm him down. At one point, Morrison starts crying and says, “I thought he was gonna pull a gun on me.”How a jury can see something like this and rule it a justifiable shooting is beyond me.
One thing is certain.
Civilians have a HIGHER standard to meet when it comes to use of force than police.
The fact that if I shoot someone I had better make sure I'm 100% right where LEOs can be .5%, that doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the fact that there is a police officer somewhere that will defend this to the grave. No matter the evidence it seems they always can justify the most insane actions by a colleague. That's what makes me want to punch walls.
im speechless.. he shot without seein any firearm and because he panicked ? even if it is a mistake / unintentional shooting , there should be some kind of punishment to that guy , or change of duty , since he seem too highstrung for these kind of job..
ReplyDeletebut im curious whats te opinion on those Pro LEO commenters would say to this obvious blunder..
if they defended this kind of behaviour then... theres no hope
Not quite sure how fair an analysis that is. Once a gun is actually seen remember, it could be less than half a second at such point blank range before you're already hit. This is an unfortunate, extreme case though, no doubt, whereby there is not only a clear resisting of officer's orders to put hands up with gun drawn, but also a continuation by suspect of reaching at his side, out of sight to the officer.
DeleteNote also that at 1:33 mark, that 'Richard' (who is obviously known to Officer, i.e., already knowing Richard's last name, as being potentially dangerous - hence his immediate request on radio for back up to 'step it up') had initially put his hands up on the seat for a second, but when the officer was distracted by reaching with his trigger hand for his radio to call dispatch requesting back up, 'Richard' then dropped his left hand to his left side apparently reaching for something. Things were cool up until around 1:34 mark, until the officer promptly released his radio, reached for his gun and demanded Richard once again to put his hands back up!
Sorry, but given everything about the situation as seen, with refusal to pull over, to finally pulling off-road into a private residence (added threat), with Richard being previously known as someone worth requesting for back up to step it up, with Richard adjusting himself after orders given to put hands up, to Richard dropping his left hand quickly to his left side appearing to be reaching for something and not raising his hand again after being ordered one final time to raise back up... everything about that scenario screams of imminent threat to officer. Do you know how many officers btw are unfortunately killed in line of duty annually in the US? It's likely many times that it happens in a situation not too much unlike this one going down.
Perhaps it could evaluated if LED flashlights could be attached to officers' foreheads, thus freeing up one hand to draw a non-lethal system to fire in scenario like this, while other hand is on the holster of officer's lethal?? However, sadly, once his right hand was holding the flashlight and was forced to draw his lethal with only free hand available, he could not just drop the flashlight and then reach for a non-lethal system too. His situational awareness would have been lost.
The only major other question I have at least, is that After the suspect was shot, the officer was demanding him to both stay still, but also get out of the car. Those would of course be contradictory demands, but still pretty irrelevant after the point of said suspect already being seriously wounded and probably not being able to physically get out of the car even if he wanted.
So given the very tragic and extreme-case circumstances, while the shooting was very violent and questionable, it was very arguably still a legit use of deadly force given all the info available for decision making at the time and that the officer was making repeated orders to put hands up, while suddenly put in a vulnerable position and seen being faced w/ imminent danger by an irrational, threatening suspect at close proximity.
Yet, all the same, maybe training guidelines could also be examined e.g., so that when a cop is faced in such an outnumbered situation and suddenly put into a threatening position with resisting and defiant suspects, that he/she should first immediately try to safely return to the rear of cruiser (for cover), while awaiting back up? Just another reason why most of us would never want that job for the stress of uncertainty and risks they have to face every day.
Offtopic:
ReplyDeletemy congrats with the next SpaceX launch. Await for the platform-landing.
I actually feel sick looking at this video. I'm not a black man or even American but I guess the inherent human response is to put yourself in that situation and that is scary. The police officer in no way looked in control of himself or his emotions and was just waiting to pull the trigger, even when he has shot the guy repeatedly he is still yelling at the victim to put his hands up or get on the floor??
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely stomach churning.
I don't know what kind of pro-LEO/anti-black basis the jury had but to watch what I just did and return a verdict of not-guilty is utterly mind boggling.
I guess this kind of negates any good the wearing of body cameras by LEOs will do as even when the evidence is there in black and white (no pun intended) many still find it hard to objectively judge a LEO's actions as wrong.
I have never been to the US but would certainly like to one day but it is incidents like these that really focus the mind and give me a moment's pause on that notion. Here in the UK things like this almost never happened, I was amazed that in the Woolwich attack the first thing armed police did after shooting the terrorists was to start rendering medical aid to them! And that guy is still alive today, here the police officer doesn't have any regard for human life and even when he has shot the guy keeps his gun pointed at him.
I agree the LEOs in the US (maybe other parts of the world) need to stop being so trigger happy and this will only change when there is some accountability brought in. If LEOs see they can shoot anyone without any recourse then they are more inclined to use lethal force as the first response to a situation. Training is the issue here that and the mindset these cops are given.
"protect and serve" is a common police dept motto but who are they protecting by doing these kind of executions?
Atleast this is the American police. They have every car equipped with a camera. Think about what would have happened if it was our Police with no cameras.
DeleteThis kind of sums it up right here:
Delete1) "I have never been to the US...incidents like these that really focus the mind and give me a moment's pause on that notion".
Ok, so basically everything that you have said about American Police Officers is based on literally 0 first hand knowledge or experience, and instead based on the media's skewed view of all American Law Enforcement in the light of a few, hand selected cases that feature white LEO's and African-American Citizens. I'm not going to try to tell you about Law Enforcement in your country but I can tell you abut mine; in the US, the majority of serious crimes or felonies are committed by career criminals or gang members. Generally, about 60% of violent crime in any given area is gang related, in some areas, that number is much higher. Gang members do not care who they kill or how they do it, they also tend to resist arrest or flee with much more vigor than usual. So when an American LEO pulls someone, anyone, over and sees someone, anyone, inside that car fidgeting or moving around and NOT following commands, he/she can assume that that person is up to something nefarious and trying to either hide drugs or ready a weapon and mistaking one for the other can get them (the LEO) or somebody else killed.
*The only reason that you or anyone else would have to fear coming to the US would be if you intend to commit a crime.
2) "Even when he has shot the guy keeps his gun pointed at him".
Yes, because in pretty much every department that I know of, when an officer engages someone in any way, be it pepper spray, a taser, or their duty weapon, that person is considered a threat until he/she is hand cuffed. Hand cuffing this guy in front of 3 other people who were agitated that this guy got shot, with no back-up present, is not an option, so the officer covers the guy the shot, the person who presented the most immediate threat, until back-up arrives and someone can hand cuff him. That is not "[not having] any regard for human life", that is following the correct procedures, controlling the situation, and protecting himself.
very disturbing.
ReplyDeleteI'll take the bait even though I see the hammer ready to fall.
ReplyDeleteWith that in mind after watching the video and having 0 incite as to what led up to the stop or any prior knowledge I'll give my perspective and let you weigh in Sol.
Here it goes. So we first see the officer follow the car then make the stop. He immediately heads to the right rear passenger who obviously the officer had seen making furtive movements. (that is a common sign of someone hiding something or retrieving something ) He tells the occupants to put their hands up and asks the passengers name. He then calls out on the radio he has so and so. (this tells me this may have been a targeted stop to arrest passenger maybe for an unknown warrant or narcotics since they say he was on meth. This would lead me to believe the officer was given Intel about the subject prior to the stop. The subject kept reaching for his waist band area per the officer, we can't see really so I'll go with he was. He gave him a number of commands to keep his hands up even drawing his gun and saying something to the effect of if you do that again I'll shoot you. The guy presumably does it again and the officer shoots him. The officer then very excitedly calls out shots fired and within 2 min or so of initial request for assist multiple officers start arriving. The officer also immediately calls for an ambulance to stage for the man.
Now we get to can the officer shoot even though he did not see a gun the simple answer legally is yes, but it's really not that simple. The grand jury must take into account the officers prior knowledge with the male, the officers prior training, and experience with I'm guessing drug users or dealers and possible gang members. I bring these up because like I stated before it sounds as if this was what is called a pretext stop. To me the male was the target of an unknown investigation that I would presume is narcotics related. If this was the case it has been my personal experience that many drug dealers I have arrested or been apart of arresting carry weapons on their person to protect against users or other dealers robbing them of their drugs and or money. With that prior experience I could articulate a fear for my life if a subject whom I know to be a drug dealer keeps reaching into a high risk area of his person. That is presuming this was a stop based on a under cover buy or a CI buy.
If none of you have ever been on or testified infront of a grand jury they are allowed to follow their own line of questioning. The idea that some bring forward that the district attorneys just don't try means nothing in a grand jury since they can ask their own questions that in normal court would never be allowed.
I watched the video 3 hrs prior so if I'm off on the chronological order I'm sorry it's been a few hrs and past my bed time. I'll check back to see if the roof has caved in from the wall punching. Oh and the above is all speculation and I can only speak from my personal experience and I am in no way a use of force expert or instructor.
Very good articulation of the nuances that go into a legal stop and discharge of the officers firearm. It is obvious that the subject is known and not just John q. citizen. It is also obvious that his identity is a prime reason for the enhanced response, so he probably isn't a nice guy, with weapons or resisting priors. To the "uneducated" in the legalities of the use of force, it does look like a flimsy pretext. To trained leos it is a good shoot. The deceased' s record and furtive movement as much as the officer's bullets are what killed him.
DeleteI don't care what color creed or breed you are if you are pulled over stopped by the police you need to assume he is scared and wants to go home so just do as you are told kill em with yes/no/sir/mam run the hoops and go home. This guy didn't do that he shuffled when the cop was walking up (minor mistake one), guy refuses to put hands on head rest of seat instead continues to shuffle inside (major mistake leading cop to go ready one), guy still doesn't cooperate but instead continues to shuffle (deadly mistake leading cop to action).
ReplyDeleteCould the cop have waited for him to pull whatever he was shuffling for? sure But when you are outnumbered trying to contain a group of people and one jackass goes defiant challenge you have two choices shut that idiot down or lose control and have all the others switch to defiant. Cops jobs are to hold order they are not worth their salt if they let perps just run over them. The cop could have dove in the car to pull the guy out but with 3 other passengers possible combatants would that be wise to lock in the back with this guy? I assume he didn't have a taser because that would should have been an option to keep the gun on him and pull the taser and shoot him with the other.
The only way to guarantee this situation to have a good outcome would have been for the guy to just cooperate. Was the cop asking allot for him to put his hands up pretty standard. This guy was a idiot and idiocy in real world practice generates great cost, needless cost.
I have been pulled over more than once and one time for sure I know I would have been shot if I was this idiot. But I wasn't so when the cops pulled me over (one literally cutting in front of me I had to skip tires to stop and the other pulling right in my a*s both jumping out ready and hot. It was obvious the tension and their fear so I don't even know if they said hands up or not but I put my hands up and didn't even put the truck in park until the first cop came up and I told him chill chill he screamed on the ground I said I must put it in park he calmed ok do it I slowly one hand did it then slowly opened door got out got face down all while saying stay cool and they all cooled off. Evidently some one had just shot someone at the strip club just a few blocks away and took off in my color truck. No it wasn't me but I grantee if I had just leaned wrong I would have looked like swiss cheese. But then I am not stupid
totally unprepared what kind of training he received .
ReplyDeletegave several shots I thought that this occurred only in 3 world
Juries and Grand Juries give wide latitude to police officers in consideration of the difficulty of making split second decisions. Once again, the situation could have been avoided if the victim obeyed legitimate commands given by the officer. That said, and given the power legally allowed to police officers, a standardized curriculum and qualifications for becoming a police officer need to be revisited. We demand advanced degrees for attorneys - perhaps the same should be demanded from those who can decide and have the authority to take a life.
ReplyDeleteOne reason some departments have not gone to needing a degree is it limits the candidate pool, I was 1 of 1400 that took the test and I made it into the 2nd class at over 300 down on the list. The lowest number in my class was 480 or so on the list. So they went through 480 just to fill 70 spots. Look at a city like New York that just graduated how many from the academy? How many go through their process and get thrown out to fill that many spots.
DeleteYo guys, have you seen this?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria
Brutal stuff. Even if it's 600 per satellite imagery it's stiff horrific.
Delete"The hardest decision I've ever had to make," he said. "I wish I didn't have to make it. I wish I just knew he didn't have a gun, but I couldn't take the risk. I couldn't take the risk of him having a gun.
ReplyDeleteAnd I wanted to go home to my family and I wanted to see my son grow up."
The way I see it, you either comply completely, or immediately do your best to kill the officer.
Having said that, good shoot.
DeleteJust curious (and from the outside looking in) If, as you all point out, he is pulling over a car full of known bad-guys, why is he going in alone? Why not wait? Why is he putting himself in a situation that can only go bad. He is lucky the others weren't armed or he would have been toast.
ReplyDeleteI have no first-hand knowledge of LE but it was obvious he was hyped and scared (as well he should be) so again just wondering why the stop had to happen.
there is a second video that was posted that shows this cop in the aftermath of the shooting. i didn't post it because i wanted to see the reaction of my readers to the cold info. in the second video the guy is crying hysterically and literally collapses in the patrol supervisors arms while saying that he's going to prison, that he won't get to see his children grow up...he knew that he fucked up, the cops on scene knew that he fucked up but the community ignored all that and exonerated the guy.
Deletethis kind of thing once mad me mad. now. i'm just curious. the double standard is amazing. a guy...yeah a meth head...lost his life and no one gives a fuck. he probably was the scum of the county but this appears to me (and apparently me alone) as a miscarriage of justice. i hope there is a heaven and hell...i hope there is a balancing of the scales and i hope that justice is eventually applied. one thing is certain. there is no real justice on planet earth. just priviliged, the approved and then those whose lives are meaningless.
whether by terrorist attack, murder by spouse, random acts of violence or execution by cop. dead is dead.