via Janes from TANK & AFV NEWS Blog.
Recent photographs have confirmed that at least part of the Republic of China Army (RoCA) fleet of CM11 main battle banks (MBT) have been upgraded with the installation of explosive reactive armour (ERA).The analysis at the end of the Janes' article does raise a question.
The CM11 MBT is essentially a brand new US-supplied General Dynamics Land Systems M60 hull fitted with a modified turret from the older M48 MBT. The CM11 is also referred to as the M48H 'Brave Tiger'.
The ERA, shown in photographs taken during exercises earlier in January, is fitted on the glacis plate as well as the front and turret sides to provide a higher level of protection against weapons fitted with a high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warhead.
This ERA is not normally fitted during peacetime training as there is no threat.
The exact origins of the ERA fitted to the CM11 MBT has not been confirmed, but it is very similar to that developed by France some years ago rather than the Blazer ERA fielded by the Israel Defense Forces.
Why haven't we given the Republic some of our used M1 Tanks? Of course China would object but it would be a simple show of solidarity, would disrupt the balance of power in the region and would provide added firepower to the RoC's effort to stop them on the beach strategy.
Sidenote: If you're into armor then you really should check out TANK & AFV NEWS Blog...they cover it all from tanks, AFVs, IFVs, APCs etc....both modern and historical. Additionally they keep track of new armor books and even models. Definitely worth a look see.
M1 tanks would be good. Especially if done the right way. Flooding Taiwan with hundreds if not a thousand M1 tanks where they can utilize a fraction of them while keeping the rest of them as war stocks is the right way and the US has surplus tanks which it can dispose off.
ReplyDeleteThe change from 105's to 120's will certainly be a game changer.
Except that the M1 is a huge maintenance and logistics hog (over half the total US vehicle maintenance budget all by itself). Modifying an M60 is a much more sustainable option for a country the size of Taiwan.
DeleteOne word: weight.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure most of the bridges in Taiwan can tolerate 70ton Abrams.
Still, I've read of them being interested in Abram tanks so why not give them a couple hundred.
does that apply to Taiwan? i've heard it said that weight is a limiting factor in Japanese tanks but i don't think that applies for the rest of the region. S. Korea has infrastructure that can easily handle the Abrams. so does Singapore, Australia, even the Philippines has roads that can take the weight of the Abrams.
Deleteas a matter of fact the only place in the region that i've ever heard that talked about weight was Japan.
Plus the fact that the Taiwanese are not planning for a Expeditionary Force. They dont intend to go Island hopping. Just defend the one that they have. A modern MBT will do them plenty good. If roads and Infrastructure and terrain fit.....they can go as heavy as the Israelis with their Tanks as they have a very narrow goal to fulfill.
DeleteParalus
Delete> why not give them a couple hundred.
China would go ballistic. This is why the US is afraid of selling new build F-16s and submarines to Taiwan
even the Philippines has roads that can take the weight of the Abrams.
DeleteSol, may I be allowed to disagree with you on this?
Majority of the bridges, if they are up to "standards", in the Philippines cannot withstand more than 50 tons. Depending where you are in the Philippines, simple "concrete" roads have a hard time withstanding 25 tons worth of load due to rampant corruption.
And the Philippines have a lot of bridges.
All you need to do is go down the Manila pier during the monsoon season. You'll see newly built roads turn into ... I have no idea how best to describe it. All I can see the asphalt road would "melt" under sustained use from weights between 25 to 40 tons. And this is in Manila. Wait till you go further down south, like the Mindanao region.
if thats the case then the Philippine Army and Marine Corps can't even buy first rate IFVs much less tanks because even IFVs are cracking 25 tons easy and many are approaching 40. that's disappointing. i could have sworn that i read a report saying that all major road ways were expected to approach US standards by 2020.
DeleteI wouldn't even risk driving an Abrams on U.S. Puerto Rican roads, let alone Philippine ones.
DeleteAnother option they could consider is the M60-2000 Main Battle Tank it has many features of the M1 Abrams, and would be very effective solution as the RoCA has many m60 hulls.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they can buy some of this stuff! ;)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11374426/From-second-hand-boots-to-armoured-tanks-Britains-military-surplus-for-sale.html
NICO
DeleteUK doesn't have the guts to sell any weapons to Taiwan nowadays.
Only the US can sell weapons to Taiwan, but even the US is less willing than in the past.
Hi, A Taiwanese here
ReplyDeleteThose ERAs are from French. only few sets are introduced and installed on CM11. Didn't hear any news to largely equipped those ERAs.
Currently the heads of army love Attack Helicopters more than MBTs, so we got AH-64 and AH-1W but some M1. And there is an issue being discussed is that does those MBTs are effective as expected because Taiwan are highly urbanized now.
Ccys
DeleteAnd the fact is that tanks in Taiwan are used as mobile coastal guns firing upon approaching PLA landing forces, so armor strength is not as important.
Once the PLA successfully lands, then all resistance is futile and the Taiwanese army better surrender.
When the PLA lands then the Urban Landscape mentioned above turns into a Mega-Ambush land. The Taiwanese army better NOT surrender.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteFact of the matter is that regardless of China having friends and supporters and unification supporters inside Taiwan...the Chinese will have to cause soo much distruction and economic disruption and loss of life that in the end all Chinese loyalists, unification loyalists and other "Friends of China" inside Taiwan will disappear or be made to dissapear or will turnover once they see the destruction.
DeleteSarabvir Singh
Delete> When the PLA lands then the Urban Landscape mentioned above turns into a Mega-Ambush land. The Taiwanese army better NOT surrender.
And exactly sacrificing civilians would result in what? USMC troops jumping in to liberate Taiwan from PLA invaders? Nope. No one's coming to Taiwan's rescue, and Taiwanese know this better than anyone else.
You resist when you believe your resistance will bring on the outcome you desire, like the PLA being turned back at the Taiwan straits.
You do not resist when your effort is futile and will not change the outcome, because you have shed blood for no reason.
Heck, a Uyghur resistance in Turkestan has a better chance of success than a Taiwanese resistance in Taiwan because at least an Uyghur resistance could bring in motivated reinforcements like Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda, rich Arab financiers to their cause, while there is no reinforcement to the Taiwanese cause from anyone what so ever.
The war scenario for Taiwan is very clear.
1. Taiwan resists PLA invasion at the Taiwan straits.
2. Taiwan surrenders once PLA makes a successful landing and secured a landing point to bring in a million troops from mainland.
3. When event no. 2 happens, Taiwanese president is supposed to be in the back seat of a fighter jet and flee to an unnamed destination to seek a US asylum.
Yes, and thats why proffesional armies are raised and maintained.....to surrender at the first sight of a failure. Come on Israel....Surrender now. The Egyptians have crossed over the Suez and you are outnumbered. And no US military is nearby to save you. Surrender now and let Golda Mier escape in an fighter jet.
DeleteIf thats how a South Korean views "struggle" and "resistance" then the US needs to keep its bases intact in South Korea. Your material consumption based Internet assisted lifestyle has softened you up I believe. I hope thats not how your Professional Military views the North Korean threat. The first North Korean T-62 across the 38th parrallel and you guys running amock shouting Surrender Surrender.
DeleteThe Taiwanese Defence Forces number in the "Hundreds of Thousands"........Hundreds of thousands...and not the puny sized 60-80-90 or 100,000 constabulary forces which are in fashion in Europe. And all located in that Island where they can seal any invasion off very very quickly. Even if the Chinese make Land Fall...do you have any Idea how much concentrated fire they will be facing from just normal Infantry served weapons let alone bigger armaments?
Whatever small percentage of Chinese soldiers make landfall....it wont be enough to start capturing the Urban Landscapes. Heck...it wont even be enough to capture a decent beachhead for further reinforcements. All the stuff that Sol talks here about the "difficulties of making an Amphib Landing on a Hostile Beach with determined enemy" is a ground reality that China more likely than the USA is going to have to confront.
Every Weapon system given to the Taiwanese skews the cost benefit to Taiwan's favor. It also increases the Time required for Chinese to complete a full conquest of Taiwan. And "Time" is all that is needed in conflicts like this to gain an "international" angle and support.
Imagine the Normandy Landings but......with the added benefit for the Germans to summon all their forces in France with heavy equipment to the invasion front in a matter of Hours and not days.
Sarabvir Singh
Delete> The Taiwanese Defence Forces number in the "Hundreds of Thousands"........Hundreds of thousands...and not the puny sized 60-80-90 or 100,000 constabulary forces which are in fashion in Europe.
Taiwan's military strength is currently 300K, but is in the process of shrinking down to 180K, just like in Europe. This makes Taiwan unique in East Asia, where every other nations are locked in an arms race. So why is Taiwan halving its troop strength? Because they too are seeing the picture, that a resistance is futile, their fate belongs to the CCP in Beijing like it or not.
> Whatever small percentage of Chinese soldiers make landfall....it wont be enough to start capturing the Urban Landscapes.
No, but the 50K or so PLA marines who land will then secure ports and airports to bring in 1 million troops.
> It also increases the Time required for Chinese to complete a full conquest of Taiwan. And "Time" is all that is needed in conflicts like this to gain an "international" angle and support.
What international support, the same kind Ukraine is getting? Heck, Ukraine is a sovereign state but a kind word of support is all they are getting from NATO. So now do you expect Taiwan to get anything other than a call for "ceasefire" once the PLA invasion begins?
All of Taiwan's current weapons procurement problem that it faces stems from Taiwan's unwillingness to spend money on defense, because Taiwanese politicians have a fatalistic view of their future as a province of the People's Republic of China. It is not a matter of if, but when.
I'm also Taiwanese and I hope the US would intervene against a PLAN incursion. The Taiwan Relations Act reserves the right of the US to come to Taiwan's defense in the event of an invasion " to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan. "
DeleteUnfortunately, the TRA does not require the US to come to Taiwan's defense but a failure to act in the event of hostilities would signal to the rest of the world the decline of the US as a superpower and cement China's position of dominance in Asia. The end of US hegemony and reliance in the region would cause allies such as Japan and Australia to rethink their agreements with the US. And an overall loss of stature that would ensue would reflect badly on any President as they seek to carve out their place in history.
These factors lead me to believe that the US would not sit idly by and would at least take some sort of action to help repel a PLA invasion of Taiwan. Besides, even if the US does not come to Taiwan's defense, Taiwanese are prepared to fight and taking a rocky island jungle with many points of natural defense would be no small feat for the PLA.
i don't know. i see the beaches being lost but fighting in the cities being taken to a stale mate. what has me concerned and quite a few other people is how long will Taiwan resist the pull of China. i've read that many Taiwanese citizens favor reunification with China. I've also read that this feeling extends to a few in the military.
Deletealready trade between the two countries is quite high and the economies are already all but integrated. if China pulls a PR stunt and does invade will it be worth going to war or will it be part of a carefully orchestrated reunification show of force....something like a large amphibious assault is welcomed with flowers instead of firepower.
i just don't know....i do know that we have to do a better job of helping arm Taiwan to deal with the threat though. if the popular decision is reunification then we did our part. if not then lets make sure they last long enough for the 1st MarDiv to arrive.
Actually, the percentage of Taiwanese who favor unification is quite small and has been dropping since the early 90's. Currently, it stands at around 9%. The people who favor reunification tend to be older, typically over 55. Taiwan and China have now been separate entities for over half a century so most people nowadays, myself included feel no allegiance to China. We have forged our own identities as Taiwanese.
Deletehttp://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2015/01/26/2003610092
You are correct in that Taiwan's economy in largely intertwined with China's thanks in large part to President Ma and his ECFA. However, as the Sunflower Movement early last year demonstrated, people are becoming increasingly frustrated with handing large parts of the economy over to China.
I think eventually the US is going to have to deal China's expansionist policies in one way or another. As such, the US to needs Taiwan to contain China geographically so in my eyes it would behoove the US to come to Taiwan's defense.
wtffunk
Delete> I'm also Taiwanese and I hope the US would intervene against a PLAN incursion.
In the 80s and 90s, yes.
Today and tomorrow, no. The cost of intervention has become too great. Notice how the 7th fleet no longer sails through the Taiwan straits.
> a failure to act in the event of hostilities would signal to the rest of the world the decline of the US as a superpower and cement China's position of dominance in Asia.
But the US is not going to sacrifice its whole 7th fleet and some 10K sailors to save its face.
> These factors lead me to believe that the US would not sit idly by and would at least take some sort of action to help repel a PLA invasion of Taiwan.
And when the PLA makes a successful landing then the US pulls out.
> I think eventually the US is going to have to deal China's expansionist policies in one way or another.
The primary responsibility falls upon Taiwan. If Taiwanese politicians show its will to stay independent by cutting welfare spending and raising defense spending to say 6% of GDP, then the rest of world can come to Taiwan's aid and sell new weapons. As strange as it sounds, Taiwan must build its own submarines to be able to import better submarines, because foreign suppliers then can point out to Taiwanese subs and say selling their subs doesn't change the balance of force.
Solomon
> if the popular decision is reunification then we did our part.
Very few people in Taiwan want reunification under the communist rule. It's evenly split between the status quo and declaring the Republic of Taiwan.
Sure the Taiwanese defence forces have reduced in number. Temporarily. Even the PLA has reduced in numbers. They cant afford to land a "million" troops in Taiwan. Who can? Where are they going to find them from? Are they going to strip them from the Sino-Indian border? The Sino-vietnamese border? The Sino Russo border or maybe from North Korean border? Can you imagine the mischeif the Japanese will play as regards Diayou Islands if the Chinese ever get to concentrate the bulk of their forces on Taiwan?
DeleteAnd those 50,000 troops.....those arent the soldiers making Landfall....those are the troops who will leave the port. What fraction of them will survive to make landfall is anyone's guess.
The Best stealth can be achieved underwater. The Chinese will have to cross those waters to reach Taiwan. Even a dozen or so mini subs are going to be more than enough to sink any Chinese efforts to make a forced landing. Giving them some capable anti ship missiles is only going to help the cause.
Slowman....who's side are you on?
Thanks for the kind words regarding Tank and AFV News.com!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the kind words regarding Tank and AFV News.com!
ReplyDeleteyou're more than welcome. keep up the good work, but my wallet is gonna hate you. i've added more books to my Amazon buying list in the last week than i care to admit!
DeleteWhat a awesome website.
ReplyDeleteThree must reads.
1.) Otto Carius passed away :(
2.) The Zaloga interview about "Fury"
3.) The article about "Debunking Deathtraps"
Thanks for posting this Sol. Youve added many delights to my "favorites" list.