“We are doing surveys here in the next few weeks up in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria to see if there is a place where perhaps some of that equipment could be stored there,” USAREUR chief Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges said during an interview with Stars and Stripes. “Maybe it’s a company, maybe it’s a whole battalion, we don’t know yet until we do the survey.”A Heavy Combat Brigade is a POWERFUL formation.
In 2015, the Army expects to rotate a full-sized, U.S.-based heavy brigade of some 3,000 troops and additional tanks and other armored vehicles through Europe in connection with the service’s Regionally Aligned Force initiative. Last year, the program kicked off on a smaller scale, bringing combat tanks back into Europe after a brief absence following the elimination of two Germany-based heavy brigades in 2013. Now, the regional concept is picking up steam, with plans for 220 armored vehicles in Europe.
“The big question for us right now is ‘where are they going to go?’ Obviously, a part is going to stay here,” Hodges said, referring to the Grafenwöhr training area. “We really want to put some in southeastern Europe, some in the Baltics, some in Poland. Those countries want them bad — an obvious reason, they’re a deterrent aspect.”
The amount of combat power that it brings to the table is impressive in the extreme. I would love to know the thinking behind this move. One thing is certain. It will NOT lessen tensions with Russia. Many on their side will see this as an escalation and a move in kind should be expected. I seriously wonder where this idea is coming from.
In my opinion is not a good idea to move US troops or equipment in my country atleast...
ReplyDeleteSuch decision will make our politicians wave into everyone's faces NATO's Art. 5 and the US presence and ignore AGAIN even VERY BASIC defense spendings...
If we need to spend money on defense is not because we want to conquer the world but because all we have is soviet era shit...and also the anti-defense spending propaganda on TV is overwhelming...combine these and see what you get.
Which country is that if you dont mind telling us.
DeleteThe assets that NATO has in Baltics,Romania,Poland,Slovakia pales in comparison to what Russia has in Kaliningrad,which is practically fortified castle/munitions storage. Nevermind the Ostrova bases that are ~50kms from Baltic borders - reconstruction began back in 2010 and was finished last year. Each base is loaded with T-90s, Ka-52s and Pskov District Marine Units are the most highly trained in whole of Russia. Literally, the Russian reaction to these occasional drills and movement of equipment is hysterically unproportional.
Romania
Deletewhen it comes to the need of snatching a few billions more, politicians are capable of even dressing some random people in US uniforms and say on TV "see, they're here, why bother have a MOD at all, we're not savages, why spend money on weapons"
trust me, i know what i'm saying, and it's even worse, i could write for hours
Well thats not what the subject is really about but I see your point.
DeleteEastern Europe is screwed. you're caught in middle and super power gamesmanship. either you have a military that is powerful enough to deter aggression and you're seeking these forces as simply a tripwire...or you're like Estonia and will get gobbled up by whoever has the balls to take you. i view Romania as being in the middle ground of all that. the ramifications of an invasion on your soil will be a guerilla war that will make Afghanistan look like a picnic. the thinking behind all this? i just don't know.
DeleteYeah, we know it - if something big blows out, we will be the battlefield.
DeleteBut what can we do? We wont give in easily and without a fight - thats for sure.
The ball is in Putins hands, unfortunately.
Its interesting you mention Romania - its been noted and said by many analysts such as George Friedman that Romania and Poland will be the main US anchor of influence in Europe.
He also expects the two to grow - as it is currently happened - economically and in power,especially Poland.
Its said that Poland and Romania will start building out a new security strcuture within NATO.
No one intends to invade Eastern Europe ,Ukraine is in a state that is essentialy civil war .No one is invading even tough both sides are being supplied and proped up from the outside players.
DeleteInteresting snipet ,my buddy that is a collector of militaria (also owns a restored M36 Jackson) has been on a shooping tour of eastern Europe for a T72 and interestingly as numbers are now being supplied to Ukraine .Tanks became many times more expensive (cost in czech republic wet up almost 8 fold) and/or not available any more (Bolgaria) even tough there are loots of surplus around. It seems now a 3rd party is gathering Soviet era gear in estern Nato states for Ukrainian military
@Eldererr
Deletewe actually mounted some kind of "trilateral" PL-RO-TURK but until now it's just talks...
I'm still waiting to see the results of the long range AA "RFI" and the outcome of the intention of purchasing another 12 F-16s...
Mr. T : I respectfully disagree. The current war in the Ukraine is an invasion. The OBJECTIVE proof is out there thanks to the internet, that has Russian soldiers posting their pictures that are geotagged inside the war-zone, with Russian commanders who lead the 'rebels' posting and boasting, again on the internet.
DeleteBut, lets assume, for arguments sake the current phase is not an invasion.. how do you get around the fact that Russia annexed the Crimea? Are you telling me there are no Russian troops there or that it is not ruled from Moscow?
@A Heavy Combat Brigade is a POWERFUL formation.@
ReplyDeleteLogical move. I guess the central question by now – Y/N Western military (whatever form) in Ukraine. Y/N – weapon supply from the West in Ukraine.
At my take if the West do not stabilize the situation with Ukraine it be a real catastrophe in the Future (no matter the result of Donbass rebellion). What form of stabilization I see:
- Large-scale direct involvement in military actions in Ukraine – commanding, organizing and material support of the Ukrainian military.
- Establishing military bases (no matter under which media and official cover – “training centers”, “refugees camps” etc) on Ukrainian soil.
- Establishing “anti-Donbass” on the base of some Western Ukrainian regions – with their own military and/or para-military forces with full supply, support under Western command by fact. Again. No matter the official and media cover – “regional cooperation”, “humanitarian help” etc.
- Organizing system of “stability support” in countries-neighbors of Ukraine ( military, police, propaganda, social support).
@It will NOT lessen tensions with Russia.@
IMHO these tensions have natural reasons (en masse) and can't be removed easily.
Off Topic.
ReplyDeleteIt appears Syriza has won the election, let see how the EU handles this problem.
Greece is one of the students that will get just a pat on the back even if they start a war...no biggie
DeleteWe set a precedent with Argentina, no feelling of guilt at all, they just enjoyed their life with the parity of the dollar/peso (i lived in argentina), we should have made of them a modern example, not to the point of Weimar republic nor old gunboat diplomacy like we did in Asia but an acceptable way to not let this happen again.
DeleteYeah and Argentina worked out perfectly.
DeleteConstantly balancing between total default and trying to squeeze just a little bit more favourable terms from IMF to save its decaying social and economic structure.
"Save its decaying social and economic structure" they just tried to save their land-based oligarchs, and for that they are again in the same problem. Not even mentioning for example the faking of the inflation rate.
DeleteWhy should I feel sorry for them if they kept voting for people that let their oligarchs rot soybeans with local population literally starving just because international price was low? And I saw the view everyday from my window.
Or people that at the first chance they sack the city? Where is civil responsibility?
Same problem as Ukraine, why no one take ever responsibility for his or her democratic vote?
My conationals voted for Berlusconi(not me), still I have to accept the consequences or leave the country, so I accept the austerity even if I have another opinion (Krugman one)
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DeleteDeterrence. It would be very dangerous if Putin would conclude that NATO/USA are only bluffing while they are actually serious.
ReplyDeleteI think putting a heavy combat brigade on the doorstep of Russia is provocative. I agree with Solomon that this will not reduce tensions with Russia.
ReplyDeleteIts just a brigade.
DeleteWith no potent air-to-air defenses, no...nothing.
If Russia would want to, itd be dead within dozen minutes,considering the assets they posses in the region.
Its like saying that Russia parking one of its ships in Cuba is a provocation.
Parking a ship in Cuba would be a provodacion but setting up shop for lonegr temr would have plenty US politicians going nuts.
DeleteAs it happens, their spy ship is almost always parked in Cuba, especially when some sattelites are being launched and stuff.
DeleteIn my opinion provocation would be if there was a constant AEGIS fitted ship presence in Baltic sea with official ports being Klaipeda,Riga,Tallin with a squadron of Patriot system being located somewhere aroud Vilnius and occasional visit by F-22.
Now that would be a taunt, this is pathetic attempt by Russia to make an elephant out of a fly.
Brigade or not it looks like troops will be on the doorstep of Russia. Cuba is not connected to the U.S. via land. There was also the Cuban missile crisis.
DeleteInstead of Cuba a better comparison would be Putin putting a brigade in northern Mexico.
We are sanctioning Russia at the same time we are talking about putting troops near them. Russia can't hurt us with sanctions.
@ELDERR
Deleteare you smoking crack? have you not heard of the USAF-Europe? what about the air forces of our allies? dude. if you're gonna be a critic at least be an informed critic.
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DeleteTo all those who say its only a brigade. A US Army armored brigade combat team is 4500 soldiers with 87 M1A2 Main Battle Tanks, 162 Bradley Family Vehicles(89 M2A3s, 32 M3A3s, 26 M2A3-ODS-Es, 15 M7A3s), 18 M109A6 Self-Propelled 155mm Howitzers, 12 M1064 120mm Mortar Carriers, and 6 assault breacher vehicles for a total of 285 armored vehicles I don't know about y'all but I wouldn't be happy with 285 Chinese/Russian Vehicles parked near the US boarder in Canada or Mexico (Not that that would ever happen).
DeleteAlso let us not forget that the US already has a Stryker Brigade, an airborne Brigade, a combat aviation brigade, an air defense artillery battalion and other support units station in Europe as part of US Army Europe. Putting an Armored Brigade in Europe is putting a division sized combat command in striking distance of Russia.
Charlie, he's probably more used to the Eastern style military formations which are much larger. Eldererr, a Western brigade is the unit of choice for flexibility and effect, any larger and you get command slowdown, any smaller and you lose flexibility. It's just a different fighting style.
DeleteOwl, even Russia has moved to the brigade as its main combat organization and their brigades are about the same size as a US brigade. here are a couple links
Deletehttp://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2009/10/new-russian-brigade-to.html
https://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/tag/brigades/
What can I say, he's old fashioned? :)
Delete@ Solomon
DeleteKnowing how slow everyone in EU and NATO is,in what a disastrous state German army is, knowing that allies ran out of munitions during Lybia operation in almost a week...
All Im saying - there is nothing in Europe or Eastern region of it as a real deterent,nevermind a fucking threat to Russia.
On the bright side, if Russia mobilized a huge amount of men and material, their supplies will run out even faster!
DeleteTrue and on a brighter note right now the Russian Army has about as many combat brigades as the US in this instance as many brigades in the area as the US, Germans and Polish have available in the region only the US and its allies have an advantage because the majority of Russian equipment is soviet era shit.
DeleteGeneral Odierno, May 6, 2014:
ReplyDeleteWell, we’re not hollow yet, but I would definitely say that the instrument of sequestration is causing un-readiness. .. Even under current plans we have to reduce our end-strength of soldiers in order to invest in readiness and modernization. That takes time, so we have about a 3- to 5-year window where readiness is going to suffer, and to a degree our modernization will also suffer, as we get down to a reduced end strength. . .we have ‘tiered readiness.’(end)
Now, not a year later, with no financial relief, this near-hollow army can afford to send a heavy brigade to a place where the U.S. has no strategic or commercial interest.
The U.S. kicked off this Ukraine war with the backing of a coup in Kiev, and then the Army gets conned into sending training teams to pro-fascist Nazi wannabe battalions in western Ukraine, and is making plans for heavy presence in the area which is, and ought to be, in Russia's sphere of influence, a point that western Europe understands but the U.S. doesn't. And yes, of course is provocative to Russia.
Nah, from the looks of things from the beginning, I'd say it was more a local screwup which the US media played up and encouraged the US to play hero again. The US does have the tendency to be a hero-wannabe, which can make it fairly easy to manipulate.
DeleteUkrainian screwup
1) Not integrating their population tighter, hence some still call themselves Russian
2) Ex-leadership not keeping population informed, hence people thought Russia was giving them a bad deal on the gas.
3) Leadership leaning East while population leaning West and no attempt to moderate leanings.
4) Coup leadership went West too fast without considering Russian response and fears.
So I don't think it was the US's fault, more like "shit happens when you don't pay attention", but the US rote responses are not helping (democracy uber alles). Have to admit, toss out the word "democracy" and the US leaps on it like a fish on bait.
It's been well documented that the U.S. was behind the overthrow of the elected government. and its conversion to EU/NATO orientation. Nuland and McCain were at Maidan. It was not merely a "local screwup" which is why the U.S. is (still) involved.
DeleteWhat the US lacked, as usual, was any concept of an end-game if Russia reacted to the U.S. provocation. Specifically Russia could never be expected to concede its naval port in Crimea, if the U.S. "security experts" thought about it, which they didn't.
Sounds more like conspiracy theory to me rather than hard documentation.
DeleteSome guy on a blog/TV is not documentation.
It sounds like conspiracy theory to you because you don't have the facts. Start here then go here.
DeleteThose "facts" are not "facts"... they are only an speculations and assumptions not facts. Fact is something proven beyond doubt, this is still only a theory. If you don't distinguish facts from speculations, you will believe in flat earth next time.
DeleteGuess he missed the part of "Some guy on a blog/TV is not documentation."
DeleteIrony.
The phone call is a fact. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki acknowledged that the recording was authentic and said Nuland had apologized to E.U. officials. Nuland herself claimed in December that the US had spent $5 billion since the 1990s on “democratization” programs in Ukraine. It was done through the NED in Ukraine, featuring "Yats" who is now the Ukraine PM.
Delete“It is clear that NATO ‘strategists’ who planned the putsch were only thinking about weakening Russia militarily and gave no thought to the political, economic and social costs of sustaining a puppet regime in Kiev when Ukraine had been so dependent on Russian markets, loans and subsidized energy. Moreover, they appear to have overlooked the political, industrial and agricultural dynamics of the predictably hostile Eastern regions of the country. Alternately, Washington strategists may have based their calculations on instigating a Yugoslavia-style break-up...” James Petras
Still speculations and assumptions, some not even related to the topic not facts.
DeleteWhat are the speculations and assumptions?
DeleteUS has also spent billions on Russia since 1991 too.
DeleteDoes that make Putin US puppet too with that logic?
Everything... it's only a theory based on speculations and assumptions, it is not proof. When theory is proven the in became proof.
DeleteIt can't be "everything." The phone call was not speculations and assumptions. Nuland's bragging about spending $5 billion is not speculation. Nuland was photographed with Yats and his fascist friends before the coup. Certainly the US attempt to grab Crimes from Russian control is not speculation.
DeleteSo what is speculation? Surely you can come up with a more intelligent answer than "everything".
I can come up with a better answer than everything. It's called Don Bacon-Conspiracy Theorist.
Delete@Certainly the US attempt to grab Crimes from Russian control is not speculation
DeleteDid they did that? Officially state that? No... so it's only speculations and assumptions because it NEVER happen. Before Crimea... the opinion that Russia will armed capture it was an speculations and assumptions, after they DID that is was an proven by action thing. Before that it was only speculations and assumptions.
It is impossible to discuss conspiracy theories with those who believe them. I once talked to my wives uncle who told me Google was secretly owned by the government and used to fool us.. wile I was looking at his T-shirt with a prisoner camp ( in North Korea) on it, claiming it to be a FEMA camp.. under it it said: 'Just Google it!'
DeleteConspiracy theorist chose one or two facts, twist the meaning of them and then use them as 'proof' wile refusing to see the big picture.
Let me tell the others my theory: Humans are not this smart and calculating, not even politicians. They react, procrastinate, look at poling numbers and take the easy route. They are ruled by much baser things then long term global domination.. fear, lust and greed.
If you wanted a good attempt at a conspiracy: put screenwriters for Scandal, The Good Wife, Homeland and such in power and see them fail because reality does not let itself be bent to their will that easily.
Hear hear Meint.
DeleteA "Big Brother" government sounds scary. Until you realise that to monitor you 24/7, some poor sod has to pretty much give up any hope of a life of his own! :)
Wasn't that what happened to East Germany? The Stasi ended up with too many people on their payroll that they had secret service watching secret service... and nothing happens.
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ReplyDeleteI dont think Russia cares.
ReplyDeleteOk, rewind a year, two? When did this all kick off?
Back then, the threat that the US/NATO would reinforce the Baltics and reinvigorate the organisation might have mattered.
Now, well, whats done is done.
Now, Russia is quite happy for NATO to reinforce the Baltics, it doesnt plan on fighting there, and at least this way it can keep an eye on them. Better if NATO had shut down, but at least soldiers dug in along the North are no threat, unless we think Nato is going to invade Russia over Ukraine?
But Russia kicking up a stink, allows the surrender monkey in chief to claim he is piling the pressure on Putin.
If they really wanted to raise the stakes, there would be a division of "peace keepers" milling around western Ukraine.
Why not for some times they even try to prove that Ukraine was ready to invade with NATO poor Russia thru Kerch Strait... they have the fantasy that's for sure. They even made a map with attack road... can't find it now, it was in the time when Russia capture Crimea.
DeleteRealigning 3k Army troops throughout Europe, as well as a mere 220 armored vehicles as part of a response and counter-measure to escalating threats and uncertain intentions unfortunately by Kremlin-side, is hardly anything similar to Cold-war day US Army deployments in Europe.
ReplyDeleteResponse is most likely pressured upon US Army also, to respond via credible deployment; or appear weak with respect to continued overall US commitments to European security.
Very sad situation and development indeed. Hopefully, diplomats will slowly start to chip away and gain the upper hand accordingly, in toning down the hawkish and aggressive (us vs them) Govt policy implementation, so such defensive Army deployments will not be necessary.