via Sputniknews.com
A spokesman of the German Ministry of Defense announced that Germany will not supply Lithuania with Boxer armored fighting vehicles as was expected before.Just plain wow.
Deliveries of armored transport vehicles from the Bundeswehr or their resale are not expected in the coming years, the spokesman said.
Lithuanian authorities sent a request for military equipment supplies to the German Ministry of Defense of Germany in summer of 2014 when they decided to modernize the armed forces of the country.
The cancellation of the weapons supplies means that the German government respects the agreement between NATO and Russia on non-deployment of large military units in Eastern Europe, according to the German newspaper “Die Welt”. However, spokesman of the CSU political party, Florian Hahn, mentioned that anxiety of the Baltic states with regard to the Ukrainian crisis is justified and that Germany should support its NATO and EU partners in the Baltic region as much as possible.
Is this a sign that Germany is prepared to throw Eastern Europe democracies under the bus in a bid to win favor from Russia?
Is this another sign that NATO has outlived its usefulness?
I'm not sure...I do know that this move smacks of weakness, and appears to be a bid for peace at all costs.
Additional Reading. Ukraine, Lithuania and Poland are creating a joint brigade. Are we seeing the beginnings of a "NATO" inside of NATO?
Ribentrov-Molotov?
ReplyDeleteYalta?
who are the real whores?
There needs to be an Eastern NATO. Members could be Poland, Ukraine, Romania and the Baltic States (maybe even Georgia). France, Germany, the Netherlands and the UK won't do a damn thing to help them or stand by them for fear of upsetting Russia and losing out on gas and billions of ill-gotten dollars/euros from Russia kleptocrats and oligarchs. We (the US) need to step up and help this NATO-East come into being.
ReplyDeleteI will consider the source, which is Russian government controlled, before passing judgement, but if this is Germany not supplying a NATO partner to appease Russia, it is an outrage!
ReplyDelete"Is this a sign that Germany is prepared to throw Eastern Europe democracies under the bus in a bid to win favor from Russia?"
ReplyDeleteSol, have you read "Killing Patton" by Bill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard? I'm still 50 pages from the end but this sounds like that same time period. Letting Stalin have Berlin, telling Patton to halt and allowing the Russians to takeover Eastern Europe. Except Germany is in on the game now.
Really...nothing compared to the critters in Australia :) (Hell, we have pythons that take on Crocodiles :) )
ReplyDeleteYou got to figure out what is really going on. Is it a military assistance grant, hence government to government? Or is it a commercial deal?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.janes.com/article/41216/update-lithuania-seeks-new-armoured-vehicles
This implies a commercial deal. The German government has absolutely nothing to do with it. The key word is "buy". Not grant.
The Russian paper is probably playing to local population, going "see, even some NATO members support us." by twisting the facts of a commercial deal not going through into German government support for Russia.
the influence of governments on local companies is no different in the west than russia, is more subtle but is the same...so, yes, it does have to do with a certain attitude at government level
ReplyDeletePerhaps they don't want to reduce their park anymore, to be ready for gear up !
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be misunderstanding. From what I gathered around, the story is - Lithuania wanted to buy IFV immediately from the German army stocks - because they didn't want to wait for the manufacturer to make them - especially since the manufacturer, in this case, Kraus-Maffei, is backed up on production orders from the German Army to produce boxers for their needs, and any orders from other governments will have to wait.
ReplyDeleteLithuania will be overrun by Russia in days, maybe even hours, in case of war. The mobilisation potentials, sheer manpower, and standing military size differences between Lithuania and Russia are incomparable. Even if Lithuania buys Imperial Star Destroyers, they would still be oblitirated if they don't have some big fellas backing them up.
Deadliest Warrior Black Ninja Wasp VS Giant Barbarian Spider: http://youtu.be/AUzrC5lUZYk
ReplyDeleteAs far as i know Lithuania wanted vehicles direct out of the Bundewehr stock or alloted to BW ,effectively jumping the queue in manufacturing roster. In any case there are plenty(AMV,Pandur II,VBCI,Freccia, etc Piranha III-V)top of the line APCs being built in Europe and other manufacturers would gladly supply theirs.
ReplyDeleteThis looks huge or are just tires so small ,love the BMP-3 turret ,internal scpe definitly looks large considering there is a turret in front. ,rag heads like BMP-3 turrets firepower had those fitted on AMV as well , that turret was the reason BMP3 won the trials against Warrior and Bradley in UAE
ReplyDeleteFor a long time, NATO was seen as a check in the box and step towards EU membership with no expectation that military action will ever be necessary
ReplyDelete@ but i think using the same chasis for wheeled vehicles is not likely.@
ReplyDeleteAgree. Boomerang (BTR), Kurganec (BMP) and heavy Armata – are different platforms. And the above-said module, or 57-mm gun module – supposed to be mounted on all three platforms.
@, sticking it to Russians is a national sport in modern Poland.@
ReplyDeleteBgggg))))
Australia have bats with a wingspan of 1.20 meters. That's really fucked up.
ReplyDeleteI call bullshit on this one. If that were true, Germany wouldn't be selling Leopard 2s to Poland.
ReplyDeleteThis is more likely a realization by Germany they can't reduce their stocks and the Lithuanians have to wait for the Boxers. With Finland nearby with Patria just waiting to score another sale, I seriously doubt this is Germany 'canceling' a sale. More like postponing it.
No, no not modern... this is our favorite game that we play with Muscovite's from some... 500 years by now? Info' when we first start to throw sharpened sticks at each others?
ReplyDeleteWe have a license for maintenance of Leos and already plants that are doing that. Part of the first deal when we buy Leos from Germany.
ReplyDeleteSolomon I find your last comment in this post interesting. The one about Ukraine, Lithuania and Poland creating a joint Brigade. This reminds me of some stories that have been circulating recently regarding a European Army spearheaded by Germany. The major justification for this rumor being the turning over of the dutch 11th airmobile brigade to the Bundeswehr and other rumors of the Germans wanting command of the Dutch 43rd mechanized brigade as well as brigades of the Austrian and Polish armies. More evidence for this theory is the Franco-German Brigade and movements set by German representatives in the EU Parliament regarding a possible European Army Headquartered in Berlin.
ReplyDeleteSo could this all be part of a German power play for defense dominance in Europe? Personally I think this whole concept borders closely on aliens and UFOs, but there is also a part of me that says this bears watching.
This information was deliberately misrepresented.
ReplyDeleteLithuanian government did send request for number of Boxers but Bundeswehr don't have enough for themselves, they lack big number of them to equip own forces. The initial order for Boxers was 272 vehicles... but when Russia start this mess Germans wake up with as we say hand in potty. The readiness level of Bundeswehr is tragic, problems with equipment huge... and I mean HUGE! Problems with Typhoons or NH90NHF, shocking. In last year Germans did notice that they have a problem, not enough Boxers to equip own forces so they rise the order by next 131 vehicles.
Now, when you don't have enough Boxers to equip own forces and Boxer plant is in full work on more for you then... you don't have a single one to "give back" or sell. That is normal, nothing fishy in that.
About German support for Lithuania, everything is ok... now German government will send 500 men to Lithuania and they already they have a talks about sell PzH 2000 to replace rather outdated Lithuanian artillery and they are on good road. So Germans did not kick the Lithuanians... not for now of course.
Ah and about LITPOLUKRBRIG (I would hang dude who made up this name!) it's still only an idea... build on existing LITPOLBAT & POLUKRBAT from ONZ missions, but some papers ware sign, some declarations said. We will see how they will do this, for now only words not actions.
The manufacturer is also blocked by orders from Germany, they already increase the demand of more Boxers and you cant produce some IFV when you full production power is working for the main German order.
ReplyDeleteLook up George Friedmans proposed ''Polish Bloc'' org.
ReplyDeleteIf they want them right now, yup, if they are willing to wait ( which i would not if I were them), I am quite sure they can get as many as they are willing to pay for.
ReplyDeleteThank the gods India did not choose the Euro Fighter Typhoon. One really cant tell when another country backs out of a lucrative Industry boosting deal just because of Politics. And it also makes me wonder how strong will Indo-US relations be if we enter into a hostilities with a Country and at a time not preferable by the US.
ReplyDelete"ill-gotten dollars/euros from Russia kleptocrats and oligarchs."
ReplyDeleteI can see Chelsea FC burning already.
Sharpened Sticks??......to Politically correct to call it is Spear? haha
ReplyDeleteAnd dismounted foot-mobiles are juicy target for 30 mikes. The missiles are kornet-d with 8-10 km range.
ReplyDeleteNah, it just too many different type of "sticks" we used to put them in single spear bag. We were very creative in this mater. ;)
ReplyDeleteThat's for sure, when KMW will deal with order for Germany they will have the manufacturing power to take other deals... but! there is always Holland as second buyer who can increase the order of Boxers... ha ha ha... ok that was joke, they will probably sell more of own equipment then buy some.
ReplyDeleteBut this open the road for other IFV on the market, true Boxer is fantastic machine but we have some on the horizon who can compete. Patria with own product or even Polish WZM Siemianowice that from last year receive the license to build and sell to third party's Rosomaks. Turks, Swiss, US, France... there are many IFV ready to action on the world.
It is rather disturbing that he indeed predict action of Russia (more or less it happen couple of years forward imo) because if he predict that... he can be right with the rest. And that's is very disturbing.
ReplyDeleteI know of two russian Active Protection Systems (APS) Arena and Drozd, and both appear to be on this vehicle, (arena-3 on the hull and a Drozd derivative on the turret) Arena essentially works like a popup claymore mine, while drozd (which can be traced back to the late 70's and was deployed in afghanistan in limited numbers) works a lot like the Israeli Iron Fist system, while Drozd-1 and 2 had a fragmentation warhead, if that were replaced with a similar warhead to that found in Iron Fist then using the two systems would make some sense, as the israelis claim that Iron Fist is effective against kinetic as well as HEAT weapons.
ReplyDeleteProbably. It would be a damn shame. My favorite Premier League club is Chelsea; although Abramovich and the recent Paris incident have certainly cast a shadow over the club in my mind. Maybe I could root for Liverpool or Tottenham.
ReplyDeleteHere's the real news. Germany announced it wouldn't sell/lend Boxers out of it's own existing stocks, but it is still bidding to sell new production Boxers to Lithuania.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dw.de/germany-ready-to-assist-lithuania-in-tank-deal/a-18275117
How about a certain Manchester based out of Old Trafford ?
ReplyDeleteDear solomon it is really embarrassing to see you take seriously sputnik!!!
ReplyDeleteMerkel and Hollande abandoned Ukraine with the feb agreement. Ukraines only hope now seems to be help from the US (or maybe undercover help from Poland). That Merkel would put obstacles in the way for the baltic states is just logical since that is what Putin wants. I can't guess whether Merkel is clueless or just an appeaser.
ReplyDeleteNot likely they will just share some components(turrets,systems,engines etc) and but in any case basic tank chassis provides base from many vehicles from SPG to SAM ,AAG carrier,Enginers and bridge layer etc but i think using the same chasis for wheeled vehicles is not likely.
ReplyDelete