via BAE Press Release.
BAE Systems Hägglunds’ contract, signed in 2012, includes the upgrade of the Norwegian Army’s existing fleet of 103 CV9030s and 41 new-build vehicles, giving the Army a total of 144 state-of-the-art CV90s in varying configurations. They will all include enhanced capabilities for future battlefield and conflict scenarios, such as in the areas of protection, survivability, situational awareness, intelligence, and interoperability.Is the CV90 the best IFV in the world today? I think an argument can be made.
“I’m really pleased that we are able to reach this key milestone,” said Colonel Ragnar Wennevik, Norwegian Army CV90 project leader. “BAE Systems Hägglunds is an impressive supplier, and with the new CV90, we are buying the world’s most advanced armored combat vehicle family. Already proven in combat, we are now taking it to the next generation with state-of-the-art survivability, lethality, digitalization, and mobility.”
The CV-90 is something the US Army should have thought of along time ago
ReplyDeleteNo(r)way, it's too light for the US Army, which is why there is the 50 ton IFV called the GCV. :)
ReplyDeleteI was disappointed when the US Army didn't select the CV90 as a GCV contender. The GAO was right about the GCV program being a waste of time and money. The CV90 is a mature program with plenty of options for upgrades. 120mm light tank, AMOS Mortar, 40mm Bofors anti-aircraft
ReplyDeleteOwl, GCV still don't exist outside concept art... if they will work on it like they work on replace of AAV, shit then we will waaaaiiittttt.
ReplyDeleteFingers crossed that Polish Army will choice CV90 platform for Borsuk (Badger) program that will replace old fleet of BMP-1. Because as you said CV90 is everything you want and couple of things more.
ReplyDeleteBut here comes a dark side... Polish MoD are fixate for this moment that IFV need to swim. That's why the first version of Wolversines were such lightly armored (not to mention it need to fit in to C-130 cargo), the CV90 do not swim... they don't need to swim. Sweden, Netherlands, Finland ect, those country's are full of rivers and lakes, and they don't demand that CV90 need to swim. I still hope that those idiots will throw away that idea and CV90 in all versions will enter the service in Army.
Now the other thing... what would be better, CV9040 or CV9035. We use the Bushmaster II so in theory the logic thing would be take CV9030 that would not create logistical problem with another caliber and ammo. On the other hand, 40mm give you a lot more options in case of ammunition.
I don't have opinion about 35mm, I really don't know if this caliber can compete with 40mm.
I know, that was sarcasm that did not seem to have carried through. The CV90 looks pretty good and the fact that it is mature tech is a point in its favour, though we have seen that even with mature tech, the in service time is still agonizingly long (yes, I'm looking at you "MPC" program).
ReplyDeleteBut then it's not 50 tons. All American tanks must be 50 tons and above don't you know?
The US has too many political figures with fingers in pies and too much red tape. Hard to get a consensus or anything done very fast. Unless the media roasts their feet.
Er Gal, the 90 is the calibre of the gun I think. A 35mm would be the CV35 and a 40mm would be the CV40. Might be wrong, but that was how I remembered it.
ReplyDeleteYour wrong. CV9040 is 40 mm and so on.
ReplyDeleteYup, I was wrong, the 90 was the intended in-service date.
ReplyDeletedude...there are Brazillians there??
ReplyDeleteNow I know that by some miracle the number of people from India joining the ISIS cause have been few and far between......pheww....but I am still waiting for one of them to rise to some level of prominence and then be declared "al-Hind"
Actually they did manage to build FTD
ReplyDeleteWhy obsession with CV90?Now I do admit it's a quite darn good platform, but still there are many other competitive alternative: ASCOD if you could say, yes they actually have won from the new british FRES programme against CV90.
ReplyDelete"But here comes a dark side... Polish MoD are fixate for this moment that IFV need to swim. That's why the first version of Wolversines were such lightly armored (not to mention it need to fit in to C-130 cargo), the CV90 do not swim... they don't need to swim. Sweden, Netherlands, Finland ect, those country's are full of rivers and lakes, and they don't demand that CV90 need to swim. I still hope that those idiots will throw away that idea and CV90 in all versions will enter the service in Army."
>>
After all, there's a one vehicle which could meet up with your MOD's demand for swimming ability. The K-21 from the far east, and it looks fair to me considering it's cost and all the technological assitance comes with, except that it hasn't been prepared aginst ied or so but you can think of it later.
ASCOD was cheaper, not better.
ReplyDeleteOn my personal level I don't hide that I'm Swedish designs fanboy.
ReplyDeleteBut on the higher level, Swedes always were highly reliable supplier of weapons also for Poland, we have more then positive opinion about them. Also they are just next door, with training, manufacturing and R&D on the other side of Baltic. Also they are always very open for cooperation and R&D so again win-win.
About K-21 it is an interesting design, but we would need to buy a license for it and whole supply/logistic chain will go from other side of world. I'm not a great fan of "always swim" and I prefer better protection.
@burden of proof
ReplyDeletedude! really? seriously? i stopped taking that program seriously when they saw the ASCOD break down during trials and still pencil whipped it thru! that vehicle is old, is limited and quite honestly not even the second best vehicle in that contest!
oh and don't get me started on the K-21! that monstrosity is amphibious in name only and i wouldn't trust it to take my dog across a pond much less a lake!
In terms of the distance, pretty much all eu countries are geopolitically like friends and pretty much close to each other. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see the polish MOD buying another korean weapon since they've already purchased chassis for their Krab SPG and they'd been promised for technology transfer, so presumably there could be an option to conduct indigenous research.
ReplyDeleteNever heard of the story but i wouldn't consider it to be highly corncerned since the united states is still using bradley fighting vehicle after all those fallacies in the past.
ReplyDeleteOh lad, you could not have been more wrong about geopolitics in Europe. ;D
ReplyDeleteIt's resemble more burning brothel then a friendly party.
And about conducting indigenous research... now how do you think, why we need to buy K-9 chassis?
That's why i am reminding you of the technology transfer from that very contract.
ReplyDeleteI will make the same admission as Galvars, I am also seemingly a Swedish design fanboy, I must be when I think the CV90 , the Gripen and several Kongsberg missiles are very, very well designed and the best or among the best in their class.. Or maybe I am just a realist and these designs simply are that good.
ReplyDeleteThe CV90 would in my opinion be great for any army, including the US one, you need the right balance between protection, offensive capability, weight/ transportability and cost/affordability. A 50 ton IFV would not have that. It works for Israel because of their situation, Israel does not need to move the Namers all over God's creation, But, still, if it was financially possible I would certainly not mind seeing a mix of mainly CV090's and some very heavy IFV's.
Lack of know-how is not the problem, the problem is in Polish Industry or rather Unions that are main reason of huge delays, failed prototypes and all program almost go to trash because of them. That's why MoD in this case show the balls and say to Unions "FUCK YOU" and they in express speed buy K-2 chassis and license.
ReplyDeleteSolomon,
ReplyDeleteCulturally we are at a HUGE disadvantage in fighting Muslims, because in Judeo-Christian or western values, women and children were generally non-combatants and treated accordingly. Western men were and are great fighters against other men, but there is a huge taboo against harming women and children; our enemies use that to their advantage (western women in combat is another topic, but it was my experience that can and should are two different and important issues). Such taboos create in the Judeo-Christian west a decent, ordered society whereby men are the providers and keepers of the (Judeo-Christian) law, and women are keepers of the home and children, re-enforcing the culture behind that law. Of course with the demise of the west these values are almost gone.
Not so in the east. When my father was training for the invasion of Japan at the tender age of 17, they showed him movies of nicely dressed petite Japanese women with suicide packs running into groups of enemy combatants. In other words, our military had to de-sensitise it's western men to killing a petite, cute little woman because she was coming to kill herself and all of them, and that was back in the 1940's. When the nukes were dropped that invasion was cancelled, but it would have been a ferocious fight.
And so it is today; men with the remnants of decent, western values see dead women and children (or worse yet have to kill them in self defense) and it deeply traumatizes their psyches. PTSD abounds, especially when the media spins things to make our men look like the killers of innocent women and children. Our men still have consciences to traumatize.
In Muslim lands, however, you see celebrations when western or Israeli citizens are killed; they are joyful at the killing of a Jewish child, and their children dance in the streets when Americans are jumping to their deaths out of a burning building (911) or a Jordanian pilot (Muslim even) is burned alive in a cage. Muslims are on record as killing Christian children who will not deny Jesus. We cannot impose western, Judeo-Christian values on Muslims; murder, torture, rape, pedophilia are all justified in Islam by their holy books, and they have free will just like we do. This is why the source of the cultural pollution must go; you cannot have Sharia law and our constitution intermingled as they oppose one another; Sharia law is political, not just religious, and as so it crushes any other religion or government until it alone stands. The Christian bible says to obey government (as unto the Lord; obeying Hitler to kill Jews would not have been permitted); Sharia says to overthrow secular government to form a caliphate.
This is not a new thing, however. When you read in the Old Testament of God telling Josua to attack a city and 'kill every man, woman, child, leave nothing that breathes,', or when God rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom and Gomorrah, now you start to see that these kind of poisonous cultures have been around for a long time. There were times that God had to wipe out entire civilizations because they were so evil that even the children were beyond redemption. But we are not God, and it is often beyond us who may repent; you see many former Muslims (even former terrorist related Muslims like son of Hamas and others) who repent and are worthy citizens both of our country and of the kingdom of heaven, but then I speak as a Christian. What we can do is defend our own culture from this kind of thing, fix our own nation (which is in the toilet culturally right now), and ruthlessly defend ourselves when attacked militarily. It is my personal opinion that we are too far gone for that, but I hope I am wrong.
Kongsberg is not swedish..
ReplyDeleteYes.. I realize that, its Norwegian.. my bad.. can we call it Scandinavian design.. lol?
ReplyDeleteWell if you look on the turks who had been one of the most significant partners for the korea, they've been quite successful.
ReplyDeleteTHEY are... that's true, they ware able to negotiate good deals for couple of things. It look's like we can't in most cases.
ReplyDeleteWe sure can. But Abba remain Swedish. Norway can take The Cardigans.
ReplyDeleteThe CV-90 was something along those lines the US Army should have considered along time ago
ReplyDeleteYes you are wrong. Let me be the first to tell you that.
ReplyDeleteits their version of The Avengers.
ReplyDeleteHaving seen Dutch CV90s in action at Hohenfels, it is not a stretch to say they are a better Infantry Fighting Vehicle than the Bradley as it is currently configured. The BFV can get a cannon upgrade right now to 40mm (ATK has that as an option) but there is no way to get 8 full dismounts in a BFV the way a CV90 can. The only thing that could be better would be General Dynamics tracked Stryker variant (the one that no one asked for) with amphib capabilities and a 30mm RWS supporting a real 9 man squad.
ReplyDeleteWe'll probably get an RWS cannon for the Strykers in the next decade, but not tracks or amphibious capabilities which would be better suited to the USMC.
I'd be okay with a 50-ton IFV, the issue is that Big Army wanted a 70-ton vehicle! And all because they are afraid of 500lb IEDs while operating against an insurgency. Let SOCOM worry about IEDs and COIN, conventional forces need to get back to combined arms.
ReplyDeleteYes, there is still a place for old-fashioned, conventional military force as we can see in Ukraine, the Middle East, Korea, Lebanon etc. They need a modern IFV with enough armor to protect against 30mm cannon, artillery barrages, and an active defence for ATGWs. Those are the most likely threats in a conventional war.
I really wish Big Army would sit down with JIEDDO and crunch the data on the most common size and type of IEDs so they weren't fixated on IEDs.
As soon as they kill American Christians, that moment you will see headlines saying genocide everywhere.
ReplyDeletethey already have. look at the bios of the Americans that have been beheaded. they've killed American Christians, Jews, and Muslims. these animals need to be eradicated. ya know in my faith we believe in wars against evil. what is more evil than ISIS?
ReplyDeletethey will get away by screaming "conspiracy theorists", it's not just in the US, in my country all kinds of foreign financed NGOs (including by g. soros, the most active and disgusting ones) are flooding public discussions with homo, "religious idiots (christians/orthodox)", gay parades in front of symbolic national assets, taking religion out of school, allowing gay marriage, let the homos adopt, "patriotism is primitive", we have no past and no future, etc etc, litteraly making up stories about "corrupt, pedophile, primitive, criminal priests" + alot more degenerate ideas
ReplyDeleteWhat is more evil than ISIS? The ones funding them, and pretending they are allies.
ReplyDeleteAnd I meant to say American Christians in American soil. That moment will be the turning point.
Edit : then I open my Facebook and this is the first post
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/dgreenfield/swedens-multicultural-center-expert-on-islamophobia-joins-isis/#.VOzL-jbFBzg.twitter
Off topic : About the Argentina-China, I read somewhere that the deal includes a Chinese space base in Argentinian soil.
Solomon, what you are seeing is real Islam.
ReplyDeleteQuran 8:12 which says, “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.” The so called peaceful Muslims are apostates because they reject some of this type of stuff. But the real, true Muslims behead infidels. There are many more verses on this, like Surat Muhammad 47:4. Then they also have the end times stuff, which requires the killing or forced conversion of all infidels and the murder of all Jews; they have to do this to bring in 'peace' and usher in the Mahdi and the global caliphate. Real believers do this stuff; the book says to. The Koran also justifies and even encourages rape and slavery. People who follow the Koran buy this stuff.
The problem is that you can't stop true Islam by buying them off, or being nice to them, or giving them jobs, etc., etc. Real Muslim believers believe that they will be rewarded for eternity if they die doing this stuff, they are not afraid of death. They will not ever stop.
And here is the worst thing. Have you seen the videos of little children training to do this stuff? And have you heard of cute little Muslim girls dying as suicide bombers, or starring on Muslim TV shows at the age of 5 or 6 talking about killing Jews? It's not just men; it's their women and children.
You ask why national leadership can't see this. I think many of them do see it, but to acknowledge what they see would require a certain course of action that is very difficult to contemplate. The course of action would likely require much more than fighting an army; the fighters consist of cute little girl suicide bombers and little boys playing kill the infidel and undergoing training to do so by the hundreds; and male fighters and women who train up their children to become suicide bombers and kill infidels or become suicide bombers themselves, etc. etc. This is is a horrendous thing to contemplate, and it's even worse to implement, as it would take doing a genocide (or actually a religocide, as it's not racial) the other way. We as a nation are not ready for that.
You can't fight this stuff by just fighting men in another country. The fighters include every man, woman and child who hold to those beliefs. The same stuff is taught in every Mosque right here in this country.
Freedom of religion only goes as far as not espousing the murder, rape, forced slavery, and mutilation of others; Islam espouses these things and therefore cannot be protected under freedom of religion in this country. If we do not want to be overrun here in this country, we would have to eliminate mosques and Muslim schools in this country; we would have to eliminate the political/religious system that Islam is here; we would have to keep those who espouse those beliefs from government office because they openly support such evil things that contradict our own constitution and rule of law. Many Muslims might have to be deported. It would harshly impact someone's neighbor, someone's doctor, as someone mentioned. Decent people who live as apostate muslims and really are peaceful might be penalized. This is why politicians are pretending not to notice the 3,000 lb. elephant in the living room.
All this stuff is predicted in the bible in Matthew 24, the book of Revelation, and a bunch of other places.
Anyway, it is good and natural that you are alarmed, pissed and ready to fight.
The Brazilian dude was called "Abu Quassem Brazili".
ReplyDelete