Navy Matters has a must read about the state of Marine Corps amphibious assault vehicle development.
Read it here.
What has me punching walls? The USMC is about to "down select" to two vendors for the ACV 1.1 project (GOD PLEASE CHANGE THE NAME BACK TO MARINE PERSONNEL CARRIER!) and while its nice to see movement, the fact remains that all these vehicles are off the shelf and will not represent state of the art within a few short years without upgrades.
Additionally as NM pointed out, after all the pain and struggle with the EFV we're back to a water speed for our ACV 1.1 that will mirror what we had during WW2 when AMTRACs were hitting the beach in the Pacific.
We have got to do better.
One thing to remember is that Putin has no shortage of fanatical supporters among the Russian populace. Maybe some fool took it into the their head to help him out.
ReplyDeleteWell the "theory" that he was going to publish materials about Russian Army actions in Ukraine is not the theory... it was a fact. But at this moment, that would change nothing... the Kremlin propaganda machine did bloody good job and majority of Russians would not care about that.
ReplyDeleteHe also work heavy against corruption in Duma... another motive to silence him.
March against Putin... another reason.
Fact is that this all assassination is weird... officials say one thing, camera show other thing. Shit tons of cameras in the area (only one is working 400m from the side and killers know this) huge numbers of security in area... nobody saw anything, killers disappear without problem. Someone high give proper orders to do this.
If that was President Putin... maybe. The people who criticize him, died or go to jail.
But maybe this was an action of some other force in Kremlin, is not that Putin is Car and all mighty warlord there. Many different groups fight for power there, maybe it was job of one of them that is more radical. Or that was an action of some group outside Kremlin that don't like this "western fascist agent" and kill him because of that.
Russia became rather dangerous place now for anyone who don't support Kremlin.
Stoop to gangster tactics ?. Putin just made NATO and the west a joke and you think that he is afraid to assasinate a political opponent ?. Come on people some states have man with guts in power not ones that are afraid to call terrorists by their name.
ReplyDeleteLike Navy matters said the marines need to stop trying to be an expeditionary third air force. It is not entirely needed. I am not saying get rid of the wing but its influence needs to be significantly reduced. If the marines would stop throwing their money into programs they don't need like the F-35 and CH-53K then they could afford to make a real tracked replacement for the AAV. Like it has bee stated over ad over the AAV is the one vehicle that only the marines need and only the marines use. A high speed tracked replacement eeds to be developed.
ReplyDeleteGive it up on trying to get your armour to Warp speed, just upgrade your LCUs to FCUs and use them as a pair. Fast Landing Craft to get onto the beach... well...fast. Start rolling armour and start rolling the enemy. Trying to make one EFV to rule them all isn't going to work, it's trying to be too many things at once.
ReplyDeleteLook at it this way, if you slapped a Stryker on a FCU going at 20-25 knots, how is it different from an "EFV"?
One question worth asking is how come the assassin waiting for him on the bridge. How did the hit squad know he would go for a midnight stroll?
ReplyDelete"I never suspected that he would stoop to gangster tactics "
ReplyDeleteThis guy is just the most recent in a long line of journalist and opposition members killed either in random accidents or out right obvious murders. Hell Putin even sent out his FSB to kill a opposition journalist in Britain with Uranium poison of all things (not exactly a big list of suspects with access to uranium pellets).
-Banning NGO's
-the new laws banning working with westerners in certain ways
-bringing back the central controlled media no alternative allowed
-imprisoning political opponents, seizing their assets and then auctioning them to political allies for pennies on dollar.
-killing journalist who don't fall in line including many who try to flee to the west to continue their work.
Putin has been getting more and more embolden with his actions, it will not stop until the west lets its balls swing instead of having them so sucked in so much that Putin mistakenly thinks he has him a split tail to dabble with. Looking acting weak is what creates wars it breeds dangerous misjudgments.
I don't really buy the recent evidence part either. He was just the resent figure head of the opposition and to keep the opposition down it cannot be allowed to solidify around a central leader, better to keep them broken up fighting amongst themselves.
The Russians often use such assassinations to quell dissent. Such an open, brazen assassination sends a message to others. The regime kills him, denys it, but all the Russians know who did it and take heed to stay in line, less they be the next one mourned.
ReplyDeleteAs for Putin stooping to gangster tactics, that is what he has been about since he was a wee little KGB agent in East Germany. It was a very professional hit; notice how the lull in traffic just happened as the hit happened; how the garbage truck was just in the right place, etc.etc. They don't just want him killed they want a message sent to any other potential opposition leaders, and they accomplished that.
A little additional information, Putin is graduate of Leningrad KGB school, they were especially experts in assassinations.
ReplyDeleteSol here are a few points I think are VERY important. First, where he got killed is literally 400 yards from the Kremlin walls on one of the busiest streets in Moscow. That entire area is covered in video cameras and undercover agents. There is simply no way he could be killed without it being seen by a lot of cameras and people. Also, all of the other opposition leaders are saying they are followed 24/7 by plainclothes security officials. No way he could have been killed without those guys seeing it.
ReplyDeleteGood information.
ReplyDeleteI correct myself; it was a snow plow not a garbage truck. It almost seems as the assassin jumped off of it to do the deed (or sprang out of no where), then is picked up by the getaway car. How amazing that the only camera functioning is a distant one whose view is coincidentally obscured by the plow truck during the evil deed. I am surprised they didn't kill his young Ukranian girlfriend, who is still in police custody.
Good articles on this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11444367/Boris-Nemtsov-murder-security-cameras-turned-off-for-maintenance.html
http://alexanderboot.com/content/snowplough-mystery-amateur-attempt-investigation
Indeed... the only camera that work is obscured in the moment Niemcov was shoot. This is a professional work, not amateurs.
ReplyDeleteI know SOL will scream at me, but the day of the "Assault Swimmer" is
ReplyDeleteover. There is no technological and affordable way to make a "brick" go
fast IN the water.
The USN SSC is a major improvement from a
design and systems standpoint, BUT its payload is only a marginal
increase over the LCAC's, AND that comes at a very high unit price and
LONG procurement sked.
Fast Landing craft like the French L-Cat (in production) and a few
others are the nearest vessel designs which can go fast and get to the
water's edge. There are a few other western hovercraft designs which migtht be possible.
At least if larger landing craft were used, there
would be some possibility of armoring them, BUT the A2D2 threats will
remain to be circumvented.
All that being said, which MOST Marines flying over the beach, are we not in a situation where just there empty tactical vehicles are being ferried ashore, along with the more important ammo, pol, provisions and other materials?
WHY IS EVERYONE SO EXCITED ABOUT THE FREAKING L-CAT????? have you looked at it? its is in no way better than the LCAC and in many ways is less capable. the only thing it has going for it is that its different....and for some people European.
ReplyDeleteoh and will someone please kill this notion that swimming armored vehicles have no utility! do you realize how differently Marine ground would have to be organized if our infantry carriers didn't have the capability to swim? THERE IS MORE TO THE WORLD THAN THE FREAKING DESERT!!!!
minor rant over, but dang. everytime i turn around people want to change the Marine Corps, make it more like the Army and ignore the fact that its been war winning. to go on a bit, i think the whole issue with Marine Corps organization has been this weird secret envy by some in leadership that want to be the "Air Force" with USMC F-35's doing everything but CAS. some people want to the "ARMY" with the idea of not pursuing a modern AAV replacement.
we're not the USAF, or US Army. its the Marine Corps!
L-CAT has one advantage over LCAC, as far as I can tell, its cheaper to buy and operate.. however.. for some reason I suddenly agree with Solomon again.. I know how is it possible?
ReplyDeleteBeing cheaper does not make it better, just an option for those who cant afford the real thing. Besides that, its almost an oxymoron having a vehicle like this that cant swim wellfor THE MARINES!
Side note, nice picture, not an angle we see a lot , which one of them is that?
I wont say I know who did what, there are contradictory parts to this. It certainly is not as professional as the polonium hit on Litvinenko but on the other hand there are parts that suggest official involvement.
ReplyDeleteThe camera thing makes me think of an incident a lil over a year ago. A Russian diplomat in The Netherlands seemed to be abusing his kids and the police interfered despite the little matter of diplomatic immunity. Our government apologized, but that was not acceptable to the Russians. A few days later a Dutch diplomat in Moscow got beaten up in his house, by assailants that were never found because right at the moment this happened all the cameras were mysteriously inoperative.
I admit, all totally circumstantial. but there seems to be a pattern.
They camera's stop watching... when it need to stop watching. Pattern is there.
ReplyDeleteA couple of words from Russia.
ReplyDeleteNemstov is not a threat for Putin. Not. At. All. A lot of years Nemstov takes western money, organizes some "Stop-the-Putin" march, they all scream like it is a Big Revolution and then everybody goes home. Nothing happens. Nothing. No one takes them seriously, it is merely a play for western "customer'. Then Nemstov and others go to US embassy, receive some presents, hear the warming words and something like that.
Nothing more.
You miss the time, Sol. Nemstov was killed just before a new "march". That is the old russian trick. Called - "The Sacred Sacrifice". You take some of famous journalist, kill him and then start screaming like "you have to go to our march/revolution to honour the dead guy's memory". So possibly Nemstov was a simple Sacred Sacrifice.
For example - almost no one in Russia thins that is is Vlad's deed. No one thinks that Kremlin could possibly benefit from it. If Kremlin wanted to kill him - it would kill him a MILLION times. Literally, FSB knows this things too good. Mr. Bortnikov(chief of FSB) has an interesting sense of humour, so it could be way more interessting.
Version are:
1) Sacred Sacrifice. His comrades or chiefs killed him
2) Money - he had strange business. Very dark story
3) Women - he was very popular in his community.
4) His work in Yaroslavl(city in Russia) - he wanted to get rid of some guy there, used a corruption investigations - guy could overrun him.
This is how it sounds in Russia. Almost no one in both pro-Putin or con-Putin communities thins it is a Kremlin's deed.
I get what you are saying and in many ways you are right, but I think having good amphibious vehicles gives much more flexibility.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just misplaced vehicle proliptlrities that are screwing with procurement though, it's the idea that everything had to be perfect in fantasy land it its not worth doing.
ReplyDeleteTake the EFV, the base vehicle (no hydroplanning) is twice as fast as the AAV7, but someone wanted it to be four times as fast (so...h
ya know i've asked the program office why the Marine Corps didn't accept GD's proposal for a non-planning EFV and have never gotten an answer.
ReplyDeleteI would be guessing this is the answer. When a state ramps up the Nationalist rhetoric to the extent that Russia has been, and portrays any opposition to Putin as being traitors, let alone ones who are pro Ukranian, it was only a matter of time before one of his (Putin's) mentally challenged fan club who are little more than Hitler Youth, decided to take the matter into their own hands.
ReplyDeleteFor all his numerous flaws, I don't think Putin would be crazy enough to make the order. The opposition in Russia is really absolutely no genuine threat to the regime, and can be mostly ignored or easily controlled with the occasional 'tax avoidance' charge as needed.
I really don't do the whole "tin hat" thing at all but honestly, there might be something to that. I'm certainly not the best informed on this or vehicle design but from what I understand, the non-planning EFV solved a great deal of the issues with the vehicle, most notably cost.
ReplyDeleteIf I am not mistaken, hadn't they already started their MPC deal (pre-ACV1.1 madness) and built the demonstrator when GD proposed the non-planning EFV?
The only reason that I can see for them to not even give consideration to that proposal would be to protect the MPC.
you might be right but i really believe that they thought they could do better and cheaper when the EFV got cancelled and then the budget crisis hit, the F-35 was fucked up and so was the USMC when it came to an AAV replacement.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe it was the CIA backed opposition, sacrificial lambs are very useful to wavering causes specially politically useless but charismatic sacricial lambs. The truth is we will never know, in shaddy cases as this one all theories make some sense, as you said all assasinatios are weird and this is how conspiracy theories are born.
ReplyDeleteSol you need to do some research, LCAC/SSC are hovercraft, L-cat is a catamaran about as different as a snow mobile from a pickup truck.
ReplyDeleteHere are some significatnt differences:
The LCAC is no longer in production (went out years ago, sound like the AAVP to you?). The are build like aircraft and need constant maintenance like fresh water washdowns.
The USN is dumping tens of millions of $$$ into LCAC SLEPs just to keep craft that are beyond their economical life in service until the SSCs reach IOC.
Good money after bad, truncate the LCAC since the Navy is NOT buying Gators with enough landing craft spots for the current inventory.
The L-Cat, more accurately the French Navy ERDA, is IN production now. It is constructed using normal marine AL practices. While NOT fully amphibious, it can load and discharge to different beacheads like "steel beaches". There would be no R&D and little re-engineering.
I would stand by my assertion that they can be armored UNLIKE an LCAC/SSC.
I did NOT say there could not be swimming armored vehicies! I said they can NOT be made to go fast because their displacement hulls are like bricks in the water. Have you seen the timelines for getting slow swimmers into the beachead up to 12 hours~ Besides most Marines fly OVER the beach these days~
IMHO the Marine is and will continue to change adapt and overcome~
P.S. there are tactical vehicles made well in other countries as you point out on this site ALL the time.
Go look at the cost and timeline of the SSC, Cheap it is NOT.
ReplyDeleteEFV is dead period
ReplyDeleteI doubt we need to go that far, if this is not an official thing the most likely suspect is some overzealous Putin supporter / Russian nationalist. Seeing as this guy actually was somewhat effective, unlike most opposition figures killing him to create a fake martyr is shooting yourself in the foot.
ReplyDeleteBut then, I am not a fan of conspiracies in general and prefer to think its usually the less convoluted answers that are true. Or as they say in cop-shows: When a wife is killed it usualy is the husband, upon which point they start spinning a complicated plot showing one of the exceptions that , like conspiracies, are a lot more entertaining.
That is what I actually said, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteDracae, I didn't say anything about swimming, I said something about swimming *fast*.Swimming is ok. Swimming fast costs too much with armour. I can give you fast but light armour (look up Gibbs amphitrucks, think modern DUWKs), or I can give you slow with heavier armour. What I can't give you is fast and heavily armoured.
ReplyDeleteThink the Fast LCU idea is more flexible actually. Post landing, you can start shipping supplies instead of A-vehicles, something the EFV can't do.
leesea pointed out something important too with regards to the USMC. US ships have the lowest number of landing craft spots per ton in the world, which limits their utility, so while I like the simplicity of "fast LCU/heavy armour", the USMC can't use this method due to their lack of LC/LCAC "bays". You have to redesign the LHAs from the bottom up to solve this problem.
ReplyDelete1) Possible... not the first time not the last for sure that would happen, but if they know how Russian society is working, they are Russians after all... they would do this?
ReplyDelete2) Possible...
3) Jealousy crime?
4) His fight against corruption not only there but in Duma... possible, that would explain highly possible involvement of services.
5) Highly possible
"why would Kremlin kill it own clown" - and why they kill Litvienko or Politkovskaya and many, many others? Even if he did not been murdered by the order of president Putin, it was done by his approval. The pattern is clear there... people who criticize him died, or go to jail.
I know I was not altogether clear, lol, I meant your last sentence.
ReplyDeleteI personally (also) prefer relatively well armored amphibious vehicles to lightly armored fast ones like the Chinese examples.
The Russians can make a 33 ton vehicle with 12 ton load capacity go 15 kph on water with a ~850 hp engine, all using relatively 'crude' engineering and a lot of 'off the shelf parts'. Atleast, if the web is to be believed. Wile I am no engineer, that makes me think it should be possible to have a 34-40 ton well armored vehicle that can transport 17 people. A lot less then the Russian Pts4, but then that doesn't have much armor. You can easily have a lighter engine with higher power (of the shelf), to maybe boost the speed a little more.
In the end the best solution, like often, probably is a mix of landing-craft and 'swimmers' , which basically is what the Marines use now.
A non planing EFV, not a bad idea, but, in my opinion, it was lacking in armor.
ReplyDeleteOther thing is.. how hard can it be to make a flat bottom. I don't know where I saw it, but I once saw a design for something like that. It used a strong ( polyurethane?) balloonlike bag beneath the hull with a plate beneath it made from some modern fiber material. Inflated this filled the gap between the tracks, uninflated it provided ground clearance. A side-benefit was improved buoyancy provided by the air filled pressurized 'bag'.
Everything is possible.. it could even have been aliens dressed up as Lee Harvey Oswald..
ReplyDeleteYou name 5 possibilities, but the really telling part of your post is how you go out of you way to make sure 'Putin is (indirectly) responsible' is not an option.
I was not there, nor was I with the murders of other opponents of the Kremlin but there is a pastern of jailing, killing or banishing opponents that could almost not be clearer if Ludlum had written it.
For that reason alone you can not discount Putin et. al. as a very serious suspect.
There are enemies being crushed by Kremlin - i dont think this case is alike.
ReplyDeleteThere was a guy, Udaltsov. He was young and stupid, as a politician. But he proclained ideology you could possibly call "Stalin 2.0". Not Liberalism, or Capitalism. Not just Communism - but Stalinism. A lot of people in Russia want that time back. They believe that Stalin was our Nation's Father.
No one hears about Udaltsov anymore. He was sentenced to an arrest - and no one speaks about him since that time.
This is how Kremlin crushes it's enemies. Even MEMORIES are somehow banished, he-he.
>society is working, they are Russians after all... they would do this?
ReplyDeleteOur liberals are not Russians by means of culture. They hate Russia. Hate it was all the power they have. That's why people in other cities, except Moscow, almost NEVER support these pro-Western marches. This is how Russian society works. The Nemtsov's community is out of line here.
>3) Jealousy crime?
There are a lot of stories around his girlfriends. Divorses. abortions and something like that. So it could be possible.
>4) His fight against corruption not only there but in Duma...
You miss the point a little. When he says about corruption in Duma - no one gives a shit. People know it already, they simple dont care much.
But when he started the investigaions in Yaroslavl - there were not Services, but the damn outraged criminals involved. Russian criminals are sometimes combine stupidity, cruelty anand why they kill Litvienko or Politkovskayad boldness. The hell of a cocktail.
>Politkovskay
Her story is much more interesting then "she was against Putin - Putin killed her".
Do not forget, the fact that guy fights Putin doesnt mean, that that guy is an angel. Nemstov had an incredibly dark past, Putin could just open the archives and sentence Nemstov for astounding amount of corruption, which took place during Nemstov's times. And Nemstov could to jail to a damn long time. This is very fun, actually, that Nemstov fighst a corruption - he was an impressive master in this art in his days, he-he.
Although I am certainly not a Stalinist.. talk about self-destructive principles.. I still don't think jailing and even erasing them from history, for their political thoughts is a funny thing. ( Assuming he did not actually commit crimes, of course)
ReplyDeleteIn the US people can insult Obama ( or Bush before him) as much as they like, even comparing their president to Hitler. Over in Europe its the same deal, although generally people seem slightly more restraint in their criticism.
To me its a sign of maturity and confidence that leaders don't try to muzzle or destroy critics like that. We don't trow some band singing protest songs in jail, instead they preform in the same talkshow our prime minster is in and he laughs about it. Maybe he thinks its genuinely funny, or maybe he hates it, but he knows there is nothing to gain by lashing out!
>ailing and even erasing them from history, for their political thoughts is a funny thing.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned, that FSB got a weird sense of humour.
For example, the journalist writes a big article about corruption, blames Putin, etc. In ten days you see a secretly taped video, where the same journalists tries to bribe a traffic inspector. Inspector laughs and says something "I dont need your money, dont do this, this is bad thing" and lets journalist go.
>In the US people can insult Obama ( or Bush before him) as much as they like, even comparing their president to Hitler.
Em, russian internet is filled with anti-putin bloggers. It's a trend, something like that. If you hate Putin - you are cool among your hipster's community, something like that.
>preform in the same talkshow our prime minster is in and he laughs about
This question is about Russian Culture. Russians think about Authorities in a different manner, and about President - especially. It is not better, nor worse than yours, or somebody's else. It is just different.
Well, you are right, this is in a way about Russian culture and normally I would also agree we should not judge cultures, but when it leads to this?
ReplyDeleteBut, I do not think it totally is about culture. For about 2 decades Russia had quite a bit of (political) freedom and as far as I can tell Russians loved it. Only when this started to potentially threaten the current 'powers that be' did they start to revert to the old ways. Using nationalism, made up enemies and a shed-load of propaganda aimed at the more baser instincts we all have to 'sell' it to the people.
All cultures to an extend have a more shady underbelly that can be misused to rile up the people.
You still manage to very skillfully tap dance around having to admit it is a real POSSIBILITY Putin or the circle around him has a hand in this.
ReplyDeleteThe more words spend on side-issues, the more distracted we are?
I do have a question to you, maybe weird if you don't know what I am talking about.. but when you say 'liberals' do you mean the American meaning of the word, or the International meaning?
US Liberal: Basically an analogy to socialism, more left leaning then the other side, big government, social programs, etc etc.
International liberal: Almost the opposite, the often more right-wing leaning political parties that want smaller government, more capitalism and free market.
No doubt, but that doesn't explain the shenanigans that have occurred over the past few years since it became clear that the MPC will not do what they thought it would.
ReplyDeleteI just don't get it. We can repeatedly almost retire weapons like the M14 or M-79, yet pull them out of armories (mostly M14), give them a dust-off, and press them into service when they are needed yet we can't go back to a modified previous vehicle proposal and give it a look-see? Do they think GD scrapped the whole thing and threw it away, I guarantee that stuff is sitting on a hard drive or in a file cabinet somewhere.
I know small arms in armories is different than vehicles in development, but still, I just don't get it.
That kinda is my point, using this inflatable technology you can have a V-shaped armored bottom, that becomes flat when needed. Sadly I cannot find the article I read about it. The pictures were rather informative.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that its hard to make a flat bottom, indeed all tracked vehicles that I know of (Tracked Stryker is an exception) are flat bottom. The problem is that using a flat bottom means that the vehicles require much thicker floors, and armor in general, to be protected against IEDs.
ReplyDeleteThere was significant debate during the design period for the Army's GCV (Ground Combat Vehicle), and somewhat less so for the EFV, as to whether or not the vehicles should be flat bottom or have some sort of v-shape to the hull.
*EFV debate predated GCV debate.
The USMC went with flat because without it, you can't skim across the water to hydroplane, the Army went with flat for the GCV because of perceived design difficulties associated with having a V-shaped hull on a tracked vehicle. (If memory serves me right.)
In both cases, flat bottoms increased the weight of the vehicle far above what it otherwise would have been; again, this was much more prevalent in the GCV (75-80 tons) than the EFV.
The point though is that the practice of having vehicle requirements designed in fantasy land has directly led to program failure (JLTV, EFV, F-35, FCS, GCV, MPC/ACV 1.1 whatever) and in the case of the EFV, the abandonment of a vehicle that would have been much more capable than the current standard and light-years ahead of the capabilities and vehicles of possible enemies.
>The more words spend on side-issues, the more distracted we are?
ReplyDeleteWell, if you want to think so - you can, freedom of speech, he-he. Putin is not that kind of dictator, like the West thinks of him. Actually, by means of Russian culture Putin is too soft and weak. I said about fanatics that he could possibly be "pro-pro-Russian" and NOT "pro-Putin".
Here in Sol's comments there were guys from Baltic states. And they said, that in Russia there are far more dangerous politicians, who will not spend time in Minsk - they will spend their time in taking Kiev directly. Politicians, who actually dont need west - this type of elite has everything here, and ways of North Korea are something very interesting for them.
So if President of Russia would be not Putin, but Ivanov - you would heard about opposition at all. All these "fighters for rights" would be too busy crafting a railways in Siberia. From dawn till dask. Till the end of their life.
>Almost the opposite, the often more right-wing leaning political
parties that want smaller government, more capitalism and free market.
In Russia liberals tends to this, yes. But no. Let me put in this ways: russian opposition claims thing directly opposite Putin. Even if it is irrelevant.
If government says, that welfare cant grow too high - opposition starts screaming like in Europe welfare is big and this is good.
If government says that we should support a poor families with many children - opposition screams that welfare makes society sick, and look. Europe got big welfare and now their economy is troubles.
Our opposition does not have a political idea at all. This is why their have their fans only in Moscow - other cities dont give a shit about their "fights"/
The solution is a no-brainer. LockMart's Havoc won the MPC competition before someone cried "Do-over!". Unless the competition is rigged, or a better-performing vehicle is added to the line-up, it'll win again.
ReplyDeleteSee? No reason for all the extra billion$ spent, or the years of feet-dragging.
when did the Havoc win the MPC comp? i don't ever recall that!
ReplyDelete