Monday, March 02, 2015
No question this is a good shoot.
If you've been coming here for any amount of time then you know that I will go high and to the left when it comes to what I view as illegal police activity.
This time, even from the limited amount of video tape that is available, this police shooting is beyond justified and to be honest I'm surprised that only one person was killed. Once you engage in behavior that is PHYSICALLY resisting arrest, then you are taking your own life into your hands. That isn't being pro-police, it isn't being racial (that bears no part in my view of things), its just being actual and factual.
Say what you will but these guys SHOULD NOT even be suspended...'Nuff said.
Sidenote: Google the following: Strength increase/no pain response while using meth/other drugs, continuum of force, escalation of force, reasonable actions, fear of bodily injury and homeless assaults on police.
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Dead people tell no lies!
ReplyDeleteClose a base in the US
ReplyDeleteLocals go nuts
Build one overseas
Locals go nuts
Madness
true but video tape often does.
ReplyDeleteNot if cameras are turn off for some unknown reason in the area... *cough*Moscow*cough*
ReplyDeleteSo this is another example of wrong man in wrong job huh?
Shit, many thousands Police officers in service, some of them thru all life did not fired weapon in anger, they go every day to work, do shit tons of good thing. Protect & Serve... and then, from time to time this type of action and shadow fall all over the whole Police department.
If the African shot the vagrant - no problem! No sharpton.
ReplyDeleteall of those police officers should be charged for littering on a public sidewalk.....what is this world coming to?
ReplyDeletePublic execution
ReplyDeleteLeaving Okinawa isn't dead, it's happening.
ReplyDeleteGeneral Dunford's Congressional testimony: "The Marine Corps continues to rebalance its force lay-down in the Pacific..."
Sure, rebalance its force laydown, AKA withdraw.
(I'm sorry, I look at Marine generals currently and I don't see Butler, Shoup, Zinni, Puller, Mattis etc, I see Pace, Amos, Allen and Dunford, pretty weak tea.)
As I understand it, the US will relocate about 9,000 US Marines from Okinawa to other locations. 5,000 of them will go to Guam, much further southeast, while others will be stationed elsewhere (4,000 miles east in Hawaii). There will be Marines half the year in Australia, 3,000 miles from mainland Asia, plus Lightning iis and Ospreys in Japan. Oh my.
So much for the "pivot" (divot) to Asia-Pacific, and it looks like it might get worse. There is resistance about building a new air base in a sensitive area on Okinawa.
you brought up a great point that i hadn't considered before. the weakness in Marine Corps leadership can be traced back to the tenure of Pace as Chairman of the JCS. ever since he served as Rummy's lapdog (which is a shame...the entire Marine Corps cheered to have a Marine in the big chair as CJCS) we've seen more and more political and less and less real deal Marine leaders.
ReplyDeletei had high hopes for Dunford till you sent me his Congressional testimony. its really getting to the point where i can't express opinions or else people will think all i do is bitch!
"Cool public execution"... "I sure hope it happens to the family of police supporters"... you are sick person you know that?
ReplyDeleteAnd a little knowlage for you... for free. Shoot in the back of the head was an NKVD style not Nazist.
Solomon
ReplyDelete> this was a hot issue in the 90's...I thought it was dead with the rise of China)....
This is now hotter than in the 90s, because the nationalism(Okinawan nationalism as an independent and sovereign nation as it was before 1879, not Japanese nationalism) is in full swing in 2015.
And the rise of China doesn't concern Okinawans, because they believe they would do better by being the Hawaii of West Pacific Ocean hosting tens of millions of Chinese tourists and dozens of Macau style casino resorts than being deprived of economic developments with the US military presence that takes away 25% of islands.
As things currently stand now, Okinawa will become the front line battleground should a full blown naval war between China and Japan/US were to take place in the East China Sea and this prospect reawakens the terrible memories of the Battle of the Okinawa. Should Okinawa become independent, remove all US/Japanese troops off the islands, and declare neutrality, then the safety of Okinawa is guaranteed even if there were to be a full blown war as both sides would try to stay clear of Okinawan in hopes of maintaining the neutrality.
TrT
ReplyDeleteIf individual US soldiers deployed in overseas bases behaved in the same way as they do back home, I doubt you would see foreign locals going nuts.
Unfortunately, US soldiers act as if they are above the law, so new US bases = crime waves to foreign locals.
if declaring yourself a neutral nation will help you avoid war then why do the Swiss maintain a military? additionally the Okinawans would need to gain independence from the Japanese which i would think would be difficult. last but not least if war were to break out in the Pacific then how could the Okinawans be so naive as to think that they wouldn't be involved up to there necks in it?
ReplyDeletebut i appreciate the info.
I DID NOT know there was an Okinawan independence movement. any chance that it could turn uglier? how do the Japanese feel about an independent Okinawa?
Should Okinawa become independent, remove all US/Japanese troops off the islands, and declare neutrality, then the safety of Okinawa is guaranteed even if there were to be a full blown war as both sides would try to stay clear of Okinawan in hopes of maintaining the neutrality.
ReplyDeleteI dont even know where to start.
Armed neutrality works
China would roll over Okinawa in an afternoon.
Norway was neutral in the second world war, both sides invaded
Switzerland was neutral, but faced regular incursions and only avoided invasion due to its strong military and highly advantageous position. A German invasion would have been a bloody affair. The US overflew and bombed Switzerland.
Sweden was neutral, and a world power on the scale of any in Europe
Spain was neutral, again, with a serious army to back it up.
Portugal was neutral, and the allies happily ignored that and made use of its overseas territories on threat of violence.
oh bullshit. pure and utter bullshit. at least half the Marines stay in the fucking barracks and get drunk off their ass, another quarter is chasing prostitutes (not that they have to chase them considering some of the orangutans i've seen some with) and the last bit are saving money to buy a truck, or worried sick about their wife cheating on them.
ReplyDeletecrime at overseas locations is not an issue because every commander is scared shitless about an incident that turns into a diplomatic nightmare.
but lets get even more real. Okinawa? do you think anyone is excited about that dump? Tokyo will get juices flowing...but its expensive as fuck. Hong Kong was once something people were pumped up about (do they still do shore leave there?), Sydney, but nothing about Okinawa gets people to act an ass. the Marines view Okinawa (and i don't mean disrespect to our Korean allies) the same way the Army views Korea. its a hardship posting that no one wants to go to. i once had a guy tell me that he'd prefer to go back to Afghanistan then get sent back to Korea!
Solomon
ReplyDeleteThe idea behind the Okinawan independence movement is that they should hold a referendum on independence whether Tokyo approves it or not. If the independence movement wins, they Okinawa will declare the Republic of Okinawa. China will recognize the
Republic the next day and offer military assistance should it be required in forcing Tokyo to accept the independence. Tokyo and the US would be in an awkward situation because the PLA would come in with the Okinawan republic government's invitation.
The sad thing is that Tokyo is lagging behind Beijing in laying out the vision of Okinawa's future. Tokyo is offering the vision of status quo, a US military colony. Beijing is offering the vision of Asian Hawaii + Macau combined. Guess which one looks more attractive to the locals.
well that does make sense. but its crazy in a handbag. the Okinawans have to be able to see that they're getting played. can it be verified that the Chinese are stoking the independence movement?
ReplyDeleteSolomon
ReplyDelete> Okinawa? do you think anyone is excited about that dump?
The US kept Okinawa even after signing the San Francisco treaty, so it was considered highly valuable. Even today, the US refuses to move bases off the islands(Only within the islands) in spite of endless protests amounting to what Eldridge calls "Hate Speeches".
> crime at overseas locations is not an issue because every commander is
scared shitless about an incident that turns into a diplomatic
nightmare.
Crime is the no. 1 concern of locals in foreign location bases. See, there is a gap of perception between Solomon and Okinawan locals.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/01/26/national/ryukyu-pro-independence-group-quietly-gathering-momentum/
ReplyDeleteRyukyu pro-independence group quietly gathering momentum
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/world/asia/in-okinawa-talk-of-break-from-japan-turns-serious.html
In Okinawa, Talk of Break From Japan Turns Serious
TrT
ReplyDeleteOkinawa had an experience of balancing between China and Japan for a thousand years. They know how to deal with Chinese better than Norway did with the Nazis.
Basically, Okinawans don't fear the Chinese the same way Japanese fear the Chinese. Okinawans understand that Chinese hold no grudge against them, unlike Japanese who are painfully aware that China wants to settle scores with them.
well i can tell you the view point of many in the military and crime isn't a concern. but i can promise you this. not many except NEO-CONS want to go against the wishes of the Okinawan people. i can also tell you that the rank and file wouldn't mind one bit if every Marine base on that island was shut down.
ReplyDeletei'm still amazed that some bleed heart idiot decided to give the island back after we spilled so much blood to take it but that's generally the view of most people that we rescue. personally (and i've said it before) but i think we should get out of Okinawa, S. Korea, Germany and even Guam. we should be in Poland, Georgia, Australia and other nations that actually want our troops.
sometimes forward presence isn't worth the headache that the locals give us. better to be where we're wanted instead of providing protection for those that don't.
sidenote. did you know that the US Army is moving to a deployment system with regards to S. Korea? no more dependents. that will greatly reduce our foot print there and it should be extended to cover every other foreign base.
Crazy, I couldn't see what happened, is there a police report or anything?
ReplyDeleteSolomon
ReplyDelete> not many except NEO-CONS want to go against the wishes of the Okinawan people.
What the US general public and even low to mid-level US military officers want doesn't matter. Only the opinions of the US DoD and State Department leadership matter, and I haven't heard any US government leadership supporting an evacuation from Okinawa.
> i'm still amazed that some bleed heart idiot decided to give the island back after we spilled so much blood
Even you see the strategic value of Okinawa.
My favorite Peter "Perfect" Pace moment, a few years back --
ReplyDeleteGeneral Peter Pace once visited West Point and gave a talk to cadets.[link broken] The man recently nominated by the President to the nation's top military position, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS), told the cadets to look out for themselves and use their subordinates for the dangerous work.
According to General Pace, the worst thing a new lieutenant in combat can do "is get yourself killed." He said getting killed "is the easiest thing to do" in combat. "As a leader, you will have to decide who does what in life-and-death situations," he said. "It's easier to do it yourself than to send one of your soldiers out and watch him get killed doing what you told them to do," Pace said. "But you've got to worry about more than one soldier and all of your soldiers are looking to you for leadership. They will do whatever you tell them to do," he continued. "They do not want you to do it for them. They need to have you, lieutenant, on the radio calling in the fire support, giving the direction, telling them what to do. They'll go do it. They understand the risks."
David Shoup at that point rolled over in his grave, I have no doubt.
actually i don't see the strategic value of Okinawa. nor do i see the common sense in basing thousands of troops in S. Korea. the issue is simple. the US, if its about defending US territory gains nothing by assisting allies that complain about our forces being on their soil.
ReplyDeletewe would however get what we've been pissed about....increased defense spending by our allies. we talk about footing the bill for everyones defense but don't do a thing to force the issue. the best way to do that? step away and let them stand on there own.
I did a three year tour on Okinawa back in the late '70s. Back then the one-third of Okinawans wanted ALL (i.e. US & Japan) off THEIR island. MOST view it as a separate country. SlowMan observations are very right. And the provincial govt has most of its existance been run by a leftist/socialist party sometime over to communistic.
ReplyDeleteBut reality set in along the way, so there is no real independence movement, AND the islanders realized that the GOJ was going to impose its will on the province in the form of a Marine and other US military base, prescence. The Okinawans have to accept that to get ANY federal assistance.
The movement of a substantial number of Marines OFF the island has already started. As agreed to by GOJ.
i did a google search and the independence movement is very real and very serious. additionally SLOWMAN's assertions that the Chinese will support it are spot on. i did two UDPs there and i never sensed that. what i did get the impression of is that 90% of the population worked on base and that the whole economy would collapse if we left. i never sensed any hatred and never ran into any problems nor did i perceive a desire on there part for us to leave. guess things can change in a decade.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the "knowlage". This is how its done professionally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI9LiVswkpU
ReplyDeletewatch yourself you son of a bitch. he speaks better english than you do polish and he isn't an arrogant bastard.
ReplyDeletelike i said. i've gone against my own readership here with the new york choke hold killing and ferguson. this one is different and i stand by it. this wasn't an execution this was a response to an arrestees' force. the fact that his friend, companion or just plain stupid bystander decided to grab a PR-24 and display it in a threatening manner didn't help either. neither did the fact that you had a crowd hanging around that greatly out numbered the officers and they were egging it all on.
when they're wrong i'll say so, but in this case i just don't believe they were.
This is where Eldridge screwed up. Eldrige made his remarks on what's essentially Japan's version of KKK TV. Eldrige is still a foreigner who doesn't understand the historical and social context of subjects he talks about, even if he speaks fluent Japanese.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/02/u-s-marines-raise-tensions-on-okinawa/
Eldridge’s comments apparently targeted residents engaged in demonstrations against the unpopular Marine Corps installation in Ginowan City, a base that the US has pledged to close since 1996.
Channel Sakura, which styles itself a Japanese culture channel, is infamous for its glorification of Japan’s role in World War II and for airing shows that deny the Japanese military forced Korean women into sexual slavery. In 2007, its founder, Mizushima Satoru, directed the movie “The Truth About Nanjing,” which labeled the 1937-38 massacre – in which, according to Japanese and international historians, tens of thousands of Chinese were killed – a fabrication.
Eldridge also appeared on Channel Sakura last September.
Solomon
ReplyDeleteObviously, Okinawans want a better alternative than working in US bases. This is why Abe offered to build a Universal Studio Okinawa theme park to boost tourism and diversity economy, but that can't compete with the vision of a Hawaiian Macau that the Chinese are promoting.
Indeed, Okinawa has an underutilized tourism resources, because Okinawa can compete with Hawaii, Singapore, and Hainan if properly developed.
The latest Royal Caribbean's cruise ship, the Quantum Of the Seas, is leaving the US to be repositioned in Shanghai, where cruise pasture is greener than cutthroat US market. http://www.cruisehive.com/the-challenges-facing-quantum-of-the-seas-in-china/6271
ReplyDeleteToo bad I wanted to take a ride in that ship when the fare was lower, but looks like I will never get a chance. Looks like I will have to fly out to Florida instead as New York based cruise ships are leaving the US.
why are you deciding to point this out on this blog? inches away son! inches away from getting the ban stick. i tolerate you but you really like to push your "S. Korea is superior" line when you fuckers can't even defend yourselves. do me a favor. make me some kimchi and shut the fuck up.
ReplyDeleteI spent 2 Years on Oki with Combat Assault Battalion, and the only protestors we encountered were from MAINLAND JAPAN! Most were peaceful, some tried to get us to retaliate. Like this one van full of them tried to drive onto Camp Schwab in 2006. Local police stopped them 2 feet from the deadline and mobbed the van, pulling them out onto the ground. Of course there was an "innocent bystander" across the road with a camcorder filming the whole thing and hoping we would have fired on them or something.
ReplyDeleteAs to the strategic importance of Oki in a new world war....1 nuke would erase that importance quick fast and in a hurry. Today's weapons and equipment would make retaking the island a tad easier than last time.
SPOT ON! i think a whole bunch of these countries think they're alot more important to OUR security than they actually are.
ReplyDeleteDeckard Rick proud of your one bullet stop? here no bullet at all. http://www.thelocal.de/20140911/german-man-stabs-four-policemen-in-rome
ReplyDeleteAnd they were Carabinieri, that means they were armed and with military training, but this doesnt mean that i will call US cops nazis, i prefer a thousand times their actions (that reflects their culture and social situation) than having your intelligence service that really protects Neo-nazis
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/intelligence-agency-slammed-for-shredding-files-linked-to-zwickau-cell-a-841759.html
Lets analyse a bit. 0.3 hits the black cop 0.5 the black cop throws the attacker on the ground the other three idiots are confused and do nothing (like pile on top him, taser handcuff, pepper spray ) 0.6 the fat cop pushes the black cop in the back (why not use the tonfa stick like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD5Maxr4WdM) while the other two are still looking stunned another cop comes running from the cars to tackle the skinny homeless. 0.8 the two cops are still looking like idiots (and doing nothing)are looking down at the black cop who is wrestling the stunned 0.9 the cop from the car has arrived to help the black cop while the other three are still doing nothing 0.95 finally they attempt to help the black cop and the car cop tackles the skinny guy 0.11 the skinny guy is tackled to the ground and the two idiots drop their batons near the skinny guy 0.12 another cop comes in no real hurry with taser in hand to the skinny guy then chnages his mind and goes to the homeless guy to tase him (after 9 seconds) tries to tase him and fails 0.17. Deciding this is too much work one of them yells "i lost my gun" and two cops execute the man while another was still trying to restrain him firing 7 bullets at point blank (one in the leg should have been enough.
ReplyDeleteSo i see a bunch of poorly trained ervous and dissoriented they dont how to execute a proper takedown, dodge a hit, they dont act and coordinate as a team, nobody takes command) then they drop the tonfas which they should have used. If you are afraid to be bodily harmed ( take a punch or more you should be an accountant not doing police work).
Was I seeing things or did the man try to grab the policman's gun? They tased and tased and it did not affect him. I wonder if he was high on something.
ReplyDeleteSPOT ON! i saw the same thing. its one thing to call someone out when they actually do something wrong but when i see activity like this then my heart goes out to the police and i'm just hoping they all make it home safely.
ReplyDeletebut to be honest if i was supervising i'd be taking people behind closed doors and telling them how they should have probably engaged one or two people more.
we have GOT to be real with this. that means when police mess up and when they get it right. in my opinion they got it BEYOND RIGHT in this case.
You missing the point, the Okinawans don't like the Chinese any better than the Japanese, and tolerate the American because about 40% of their economy is tied to the US DOD.
ReplyDeleteI saw protests all the time in downtown Naha and outside Kadena AB by what I called then the radical fringe.
Okinawa has been a tourist destination for mainland Japanese for decades due to weather and scenery. OCEAN EXPO in 197x was a big deal then and facility still exists.
ReplyDeleteDISTANCE
ReplyDeleteThanks Sol. Many in the media wanted to play this up. I think it's odd that statistically the police shoot and kill give or take 400 people a year for the past lord knows how long, but until recently most would not make it past local news. With all the edited video put out before a thorough investigation and the full video is released and the misleading headlines to get more people to click their news stories the media would have you believe the police are out on a killing spree.
ReplyDeleteTo Deckard Rick bringing the Nazi police state in that quick shows me your a cop blocker, because that is their argument for everything. I promis you the gangs get the attention they desirve. You just don't hear about it from them, because honest to God they know the game. I have had more gang members tell me they respect what I do than the meth heads wanting drugs to be legal. The gang members already know they are going to jail when caught and accept it. I am more worried now about these idiots that pull the "I know my rights" crap and they really have no clue, but some nut job on YouTube he watched said so. They are the ones I am worried about now, because they will push a confrontation for no reason getting themselves and more officers hurt. Had one idiot believe in the 21 jump street line that his arrest was invalid because I didn't read him his rights. I begged him to exercise his right to shut up.
By the way you dumbass a leg shot. You do realize there is a major artery that runs through your leg right. Deadly force is just that. Also you must be a key board commando with no training in what the body goes through in a time of high stress. In my force on force trainings I do not believe I have ever shot the bad guy less than 3 times. Most of the time I fired 5 to 6 because that's all they put in the mags to keep the cost down.
Back to the point of the story. Im on my highest guard around the homeless. You never know what they are on or if they are just plain crazy. About the time you realize which its to late.
Six guys with tonfas tazers sprays and cuffs cannot take down an unarmed guy that barely eats even more so he manages to grab one of your guns in the process.
ReplyDeleteActually that's less than 5% of this econmy
ReplyDeleteI have been here on and off for 15 years and have lived on both sides of the fence both Tokyo and Washington treat them like they are slave I wouldn't underestimate the independence movement they hate the Japanese and deeply resent Americans
ReplyDeleteThe okinawans are not being paid most of this money goes to fat cats in Tokyo who take them for granted
ReplyDelete