via TopWar.RU
In early March, it became known to terminate the participation of Russia in one of the most interesting Russian-Ukrainian projects in the field of military aviation. For several reasons, the Russian Defense Ministry was forced to erase from their work plans for the development and construction of military transport aircraft An-70. Earlier it was planned to take part in the final stages of this project, as well as purchase a few dozen of these aircraft. However, recent events have forced the Russian Defense Ministry to refuse further participation in the project.This is one of the reasons why this conflict has been so hard for me to wrap my head around.
Ukraine and Russia were once working hand in hand...I'm not talking about the Soviet era but recently.
The loss of Russian participation in the AN-70 project is going to hurt Ukraine bad. First it promised to safeguard Ukrainian aviation expertise but its going to hurt the Ukrainian budget. The AN-70 promised to deliver what the A400M couldn't, a strategic airlifter at a decent price.
It looked like a world beater and it would be a best seller.
All that appears to be dead now.
It was a political project from the very beginning.
ReplyDeleteNo need for it anymore. Ilyusha(IL-76) will do just fine.
Also, Russia suffered from this "divorce" a lot. Out shipbuilding program is on the point of failure because of loss of the Ukrainian contractors.
Ukraine retained very close relations with Russia after the fall of the USSR, second only to Belarus
ReplyDeleteBoth as a shared identity, Kiev was once the cultural and Economic Capital of the Rus people, even if there wasnt so a much a Rus state at the time,
And through forced economic ties, Russia may have the Gas fields, but much of the equipment to control the Russian gas network had been located in Ukraine, as had many key industrial sectors.
Russia has been slowly chipping away at the economic ties, building new equipment on its side of the border to reduce its reliance on Ukraine, and Ukraine has been building up ties with the EU to free itself from its dangerous codependent relationship with Russia. Make no mistake, the agreements it signed with the EU were the first step of full membership.
Russia cannot allow its strategic military industry to be reliant on EU supplied goods, and so has taken the factories it cannot recreate
Now, Ukraine is borderline bankrupt, its only wealth coming from agriculture in a collective trade group that already has huge problems with over production of foodstuffs.
This war is devastating for The Ukraine.. AND Russia..
ReplyDeleteIt has always been about 'the powers that be' and their wish to remain in power. History has shown there is no better way to distract the populus then starting a war and blaming a few innocents.
Most of the Antonov's patents are still kept in Moscow, because during the Soviet Union the the Research and Design Bureau Antonov had a main office there, so the patents had to be registered by the Soviet government.
ReplyDeleteThat means for Antonov today, that it will be nearly impossible to gain new partners or money to restart the An-70 programme (i.e. China and the SAC Medium Air Transporter Y-30) .
At long last a logical decision was made. It tooks a twenty years for us
ReplyDeleteto realize that our “brotherhood-cooperation” ideas are not effective as Old
Europe’s policy of depopulation, deindustrialization and credit slavery.
@ because during the Soviet Union the the
ReplyDeleteResearch and Design Bureau Antonov had a main office there@
With all due respect, but you are wrong here. The situation you described was with helicopter’s engines in the Soviet Union – R&D was in Russian Soviet republic, the production plant – in Ukrainian one. Now the Ukrainian plant became Motor-Sich. With production of An’s line – the situation was exactly the opposite – R&D (now – Antonov) in Ukraine, the production in Soviet Russia.
Antonov tried to organize a production venture for itself but failed. Then they decided to get money via sitting on soviet licenses – but failed too. We exchanged a lot of our money for their technical documentation in form of computer data and kept them tied up to us. Now Antonov looks like to be not interested for us anymore.
I've always admired Russian aerospace designs. But it is hard to build stuff with people you are at war with.
ReplyDeleteUhhh... it's good that Russia avoid that, because if not it would have fast declining population, almost non existing industry and absolute slavery of budget to some outside source like oil & gas sale... oh wait... ;)
ReplyDeleteStarting this conflict in Ukraine was a deliberate strategy to hurt both Russia and Ukraine. That Russia has managed to deflect it from being a direct proxy-war against them using Ukraine, to a civil war within Ukraine doesn't mean that they're not still suffering from it.
ReplyDeleteAt this moment, Europe and the US is hostile towards Russia. Russia needs to bypass these bottlenecks and expand their influence towards South America, Africa and Asia, otherwise they'll simply get stifled. They're going to get competition from China though.
ReplyDeleteOne VERY important change for Russia to make is a language transition to English, though I know that a lot of Russians already do know how to speak English, but not enough. If you want to do international business, English is a must.
Russia is too inward looking, they need to expand their trade influence more, get people to invest in Russia. Which means China, Asia and Africa, the US and Europe isn't going to want to get close.
Ił-76 is old design, very old... it did not have any serious "refresh" for a long time. And An-70 was to replace the old An-12 that Russia still have some... 50 machines? That leave the gap in Russian airlift in therms of tactical transport plane. Ił is trying to push on the production line the 214 model but they for now have only an not that good looking model and promise that first prototype will fly in 2017... maybe.
ReplyDeleteI would say there are two reasons behind this decision now:
- kick more Ukraine
- with cash running away from Russia budget like Road Runner from Coyote it is the move save those cash they would freeze for this plane.
are you sure you are talking about the great great russia? It sounds like a middle east country to me.
ReplyDelete>Ił-76 is old design, very old... it did not have any serious "refresh" for a long tim
ReplyDeleteEm. right now a new version Il-76 (didnt remember the letters) is being transformed into a prototype of our new AWACS.
I didnt say that there is no problem.. I said that An-70 was a political project. Russia can develop such aircraft on her own - and will do it, now.
A lot of contracts with Ukraine was made out of political matters. This is why when almost ALL contracts failed - almost 80% of Russian contractorcs are ready to develop a pure russian version of their gears. For example a air-to-air misssile - about a year and Ukrainian components will be gone from these things.
We had to to it long time ago. But "they are brothers" and other Putin's shit interfered.
>non existing industry
ReplyDeletePolish experts of Russian economy, how cute =) You should visit some specials blogs devoted to Russian industry modernization - oh wait, dont do it, it will ruin your little world =)
Problem is that Russia... don't have anything for "trade" if we eliminate weapons and natural resources. Name one world know trade mark or famous product they export? Not too much huh? No, Russia is unable to run the competition against China, US or EU in form of trade. China already dominate Russian market.
ReplyDeleteIł-76 is still Ił-76... old airframe with new guts is still and old airframe. Developing of new plane wit take time and a lot's of it, do Russia have the cash to trying start that project or... they will put a new paint on old An-12?
ReplyDeleteName one word wide know trade mark of Russia... not an weapon please ;)
ReplyDelete>old airframe with new guts is still and old airframe
ReplyDeleteWings have undergone modernization, and some other "aero" stuff. Range of the new IL has increased, btw. If aircraft does, what it is designed to do - why creating a "pure next gen"? We have no Lockheed-Martin, no one to feed with milliards of dollars/
We do not need an another F-35-like story where everything is so "brand new" so you have to buy "old' Super Hornets to keep your aviation ready.
Rosatom? RusHydro? yes, they do not produce iPhones, so probably you do not know about them =)
ReplyDeleteCheck out the Rosatom's pool of contracts, total cost. Check out - and compare with budget of your country.
>China already dominate Russian market.
ReplyDeleteYou completely misunderstand our economical relationship with China.
Trade Mark... Rosatom nor RusHydro is not a trade mark world know. And I know Rosatom, they help build our reactors.
ReplyDeleteIlushin should build new type of tactical transport long time ago, why he did not done this huh?
ReplyDeleteWell... how about PAK-FA lad? It is not an F-35 hole of Russia?
You want to say that China trade and stuff don't dominate on Russian market from all outside traders?
ReplyDeleteNo. They always maintained a big part of several markets(well, because China is world's plant and factory) however there are marketss that chinese started to lose.
ReplyDeleteFor example our textile(dont know the word, my english is poor, sorry =(. Industry, which creates clothes and other stuff) are now increasing its production level, beating out chinese fabrics. Almost all big russian cloth brands are starting to move the production of closes back to Russia.
And there are other examples. Our economical coexistense is very interesting and not that simple. Just like military and political co-existence.
... who cares about the world... he he, so no trade mark you know huh?
ReplyDeleteYeah they build both.... in 1974, he he he... how cute ;)
>Rosatom nor RusHydro is not a trade mark world know
ReplyDeleteAnd who cares about world?
>And I know Rosatom, they help build our reactors.
So Russia "has no industrty" but somehow helped you to build reactors. he-he-he. How cute =)
>why he did not done this huh?
ReplyDeleteBecause of politics and "we should support our brother". Shitty things. You are right, Ilyushin should have build it a long time ago. But this is how it is.
>how about PAK-FA lad? It is not an F-35 hole of Russia?
Are you trolling me? =) PAK FA -project is a more than "create a new plane" project. During its preparation Russia conducted a big industry modernization and reorganization. And PAK FA didnt asks a one more milliard of dollars. Program progresses not that fast - but there is no hastening and no politics at all. Our military will not let it enter service unless it is really operation ready.
When PAK FA will go in production? When it's ready. Russia will wait for it to evolve.
That will be a possible future... but I speak about present. Look around you and say how many things with Made in China you see, be honest.
ReplyDelete>Yeah they build both.... in 1974, he he he... how cute ;)
ReplyDeleteAnd where is yours nuclear reactors? =) Or you cant achieve a level, which was achieved by Rosatom a 40 years ago? =) How cute =)
And still "Russia haz no industry!!11" He-he-he.
>how many things with Made in China you see, be honest
ReplyDeleteCars are moslty Russian-made. Yes, it is Toyota and Renault, but their are assembled here. And level of localisation grows - it is a law here.
All furniture are Russian.
Electronic stuff(TV and things) are not just chinese but it is better say - asian.
The electricity stuff(lamp and others) are russian or europian.
Food is Russian
Clothes are mostly asian.
The level of chinese dominance are almost like everywhere else. There is no total dominance and no crushing defeat of european goods.
We don't use them, those two are for academic study.
ReplyDeleteLet me put that in other way, when I'm visiting Barcelona I see German, American, British, French cars... I eat in restaurants with different cousins I see many different brands shops, in that moment I walk part in Polish part in China made cloths and and speak by made in Finland phone. Even the vodka I drink (I don't like it, no offense but for me historically was a drink of peasants and I prefer beer or honey) in club is from Finland.
I do not see anything from Russia. As you English is not my native language, that why I may put that in wrong way before that... I mean that Russia don't have an industry for TRADE. I hope that this will made somethings more clear.
Off topic : apparently ISIS is using chlorine gas on car bombs.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.funker530.com/isis-caught-using-chlorine-gas-as-chemical-weapon/
And now if the sanctions "war" will push more EU made products and Russian one will no be able to replace them, don't you think that China will be more then happy to... walk in to that space with own things?
ReplyDelete< better say - asian
Yeah, the Taiwanese parts were always better ;)
>(I don't like it, no offense but for me historically was a drink of peasants and I pefer beer or honey)
ReplyDeleteWell, we are nation of peasants and workers, he-he, but i do not like it too. Cognac is way better.
>I mean that Russia don't have an industry for TRADE. I hope that this will made somethings more clear.
Well this is a different story.
Because Russia is not a part of your world, no? This is why a common people cant see russian goods - because is not specialising in it.
Common people do not know about Russian goods, but military men of all world know about Almaz-Antey and its creations. Everyone in nuclear industry know about Rosatom. Everyone in space industry knows about Soyuz and others.
So no concern about a common people's goods. We just do not suited for it. For know. Hell knows what will be in future.
No one know about our clothes - but everyone knows about our SAM's. That is fine for me =)
But how many it will be in line and if they wait more... do they will not have an rising competition from China, India and Japan products? More or less PAK-FA will be and Russian F-22... small in numbers, support with larger numbers of Su-27 family and something If I remember more lighter based on PAK-FA that will be designed in the future?
ReplyDelete>and Russian one will no be able to replace them,
ReplyDeleteAnd no, this is too simplistic view of the situation.
1) Amount of european goods are being pushed is not that big, really, It affects only a certain part of Russia. I live in Siberia - and I didnt notice a disappearance of european goods. We got our own food and live with it
2) Because of mad ruble the importing stuff is now too painfull. The fresh digits - import size has decreased to 2\3 of previous level.
3) Our industry possesed a certain amount of spare power and now this resouscec are being pushed. For example - a meat-making(dont know the word, sorry, fabrics where are sausages and other meat things made) was at the poing of failure - they worked only 2-3 days out of week - no contracts. And know they are trying to catch a moment and planing to enter 100% production rate till summer.
Yes, we are not able to create a workaround for every good - but the process has started. Now we will have to wait 1-2 years for situation to settle - and continue living in the new economical reality.
>Yeah, the Taiwanese parts were always better ;)
yeah, something like that =)
Well I did prefer when you were nation of writers and artists... ;)
ReplyDeleteRussia did became a specialist in weapon and heavy industry machines... but they ignore the quality goods market for most of time. Maybe Russians get used for that but rest of the world did not, and if Russia want to go in to word wide trade, well there is nothing they can put on table. Not to mention weapons, rocket engines and couple of other things. If this will not change... Russia will be a buyer not seller.
But as you say... who know what will be in the future.
Btw: you know what is the most popular cousin on the world with "Russian" in the name? No... not vodka or caviar... Polish Piroshki also know as Russian ones or just Russian. No idea why but they are delicious! :D
>do they will not have an rising competition from China, India and Japan products
ReplyDeleteIf you are about a fifth-gen fighters than Russia is not taking asian aircrafts seriosly.
And we got a reason for it - a lot of our engineers are took part in creating "pure chinese aircrafts". On russian military blogs you can meet people who are close to chinese aviation. They can tell a lot of interesting stories about it.
>More or less PAK-FA will be and Russian F-22..
For now - yes. PAK FA is a"F-22 2.0".
>with larger numbers of Su-27 family
Su-35 is awesome. As rumours spread about it - it is a very well designed aircraft.
For now yes, it looks like that. Why? Because Air Force is not a top priority force in our current doctrine.
>I remember more lighter based on PAK-FA that will be designed in the future?
For now no, DoD waits for economic situation to clear and waits for PAK FA to be fully armed. Then will start a research cycle and so on.
For now a new version(which is still kinda secret, he-he) of MiG-35 will play a Light Multirole Fighter. It is not that MiG-35 you saw at indian MMRCA.
1) Yeah, as Dmitry Glukhovsky (one of my favorite!) write in one of his novels when nuke war will start on the planet people in Siberia will probably not notice if for couple of years or more... and after that they will not see too much change after all.
ReplyDelete3) On the border of Königsberg - Poland there was many Russian butchershops that buy Polish meat and made a product from them, it was a good business for both. When Kremlin put an counter sanctions (or some made ones accusations about quality again!) the trade stop and those productions sites close, many Russians lost jobs and If I remember correctly Russia import most of pork from outside. Polish farmers feel that also but they ware able to sell meat in other places. Well, in that case Russians from Königsberg loose a much...
< Now we will have to wait 1-2 years for situation to settle
You are too big optimist, 6 years in the good scenario... too much in Russia had been in "fuck this" department to fix it in 2 years. Agriculture maybe even a decade. Correct me but more or less year ago Russian farmlands were able to produce only two things that ensure 100% request from internal market... potatoes & vodka.
>If this will not change... Russia will be a buyer not seller.
ReplyDeleteA lot of countries are more buyers than sellers, he-he. We will live with it, i guess. As long as we have food, gas to keep our houses warm, and weaponry to keep our borders safe - it will be just fine.
It is not clear if Russia will ever enter a big market and big open world. A lot of people (common and elite) think, that for Russia it is better to lightly isolate itself. No Iron Curtain, no. But concentrait on inner matters - make products for own market and be self contented it terms of econimic.
World do not need us. So why should were be concerned about world?
< or now - yes. PAK FA is a"F-22 2.0".
ReplyDeleteI mean in number of machines.
Su-35 is just another Su-27 after tuning... and it's hard to fuck something that well design as Su-27. Well, you can try but you need to try really hard. About Air Force... the bomber branch looks like really forgotten one. I pity boys in Bears, but I do need to pity them really laud because they lost hearing pretty fast from those counter rotating propellers.
You need to inform Kremlin that you are not "concerned about world" as they really insist that world should concern about them. ;)
ReplyDelete>Well, in that case Russians from Königsberg loose a much...
ReplyDelete"When you chop trees - parts of it are scattering". or "Les rubyat - shepki letyat".
Imposing a counter sanctions was a no-option step. Kremlin had to respond. Of cause some one will suffer of it. But this is a Cold War, after all.
>were able to produce only two things that ensure 100% request from internal market... potatoes & vodka.
As I said - situation is far more complex. Of cause if "fuck this" department will work without vacations - we will sit in this crazy ass situation for long time.
Also - i didnt mean that in 1-2 years everything will be ok. No-no-no.
In 1-2 years a new play rules will become clear. What you can do - and what can not. What markets you can start fighting - and where competing is useless. Crisis will be, yes, but this is not something new to us. After 90ths, he-he.
> Imposing a counter sanctions was a no-option step. Kremlin had to respond. Of cause some one will suffer of it. But this is a Cold War, after all.
ReplyDeleteWell they put that respond in rather weird way... UE put an sanction for weapons tech trade... and Russia put a sanction on food.
There is a joke in Poland: "Union put an sanction on Russia, in response Russia put sanctions on own citizens"
>I mean in number of machines.
ReplyDeleteSeems yes, kind of Specnaz forces for special tasks.
>Su-35 is just another Su-27 after tuning...
Wow-wow-WOW! You completely do not understand what Su-35 is =)
It is very interesting project if you look on it very-very closely. I mean VERY closely.
>About Air Force... the bomber branch looks like really forgotten one.
Wow-wow-WOW! Take it easy! They got a brand new stealthy very-very-very-very long range missile, got a completely new jamming system(i mean a very GOOD Jamming system) and a other stuff of electronic Warfare.
Bears after modernisation will become a damn dangerous guys.
And propellers... Oh common, it looks awesome! The "Crazy Ivan" style =)
And last thing - do not call Tu-95MS(M) a bomber. You are being incorrect =)
>and Russia put a sanction on food.
ReplyDeleteThere is a sense in it - Kremlin disposes one concurrent and wants its farmers to take the free part of market. Will citizens suffer? Yes. But it has to be done.
>they really insist that world should concern about them
ReplyDeleteWhy? Can you explain? For me Kremlin's politics sometime looks even autistic.
Oh c'mon Su-35 is almost the same airframe, a little bigger wings and tail section, larger engine nozzles but in form of architecture nothing new. The "magic" is in new better engines and more advance avionics. That's why it is Su-27 after tuning. It is not a new plane, just a advance modification of Su-27.
ReplyDeleteThe missile is good but the missile carrier is construction that have in next year it's 60 birthday. It's old, worn out and outdated plane that have no chance of surviving on modern battlefield. It's too slow, too laud and easy to detect... flying coffin for crews in case of any conflict. Yeah it can carry interesting payload but it's just... a dead man job. And nothing to replace them right?
Tu-95 series is designated as strategic bomber/missile carrier (the same thing in those days) and patrol/surveillance plane.
A terrible move... my grandfather had an apple orchard, I did saw my whole life how he work in it, how he create it. It's work for decades for orchard to start product quality fruits in good number. When I read information how in Königsberg they plant some "orchards" and in next year they will give them huge number of apples... I just shake my head in disbelief of such stupidity. And I wonder if anyone there is buying such bullshit?
ReplyDeleteWell they say constant that Russia is superpower (well, no it is not anymore) and they should have a solid voice of world politics and they want to have new order and spheres of influence. In other hand Kremlin want to play again in big boys club.
ReplyDeleteThey do look autistic... clearly is the perk of every politicians this day.
>Oh c'mon Su-35 is almost the same airframe, a little bigger wings and
ReplyDeletetail section, larger engine nozzles but in form of architecture nothing
new
Devil lives in details. In case of Su-35 - devil is very interesting.
Su-35 is not a Su-27 after modernization. It is a almost a COMPLETE recreation of Su-27 on drastically new level. New win, supermanueruablity by design etc.
So airframe changed considerably - but you need to be very fond of aerudynamics to see the devil there.
So by means of airframe can be said that Su-35 is one of the most advaned aircraft.
A good word for Su-35 is "mature". It is a complete evolved version of Su-27 who just looks similar - but nothing more. A good ending for 4th gen.
>The missile is good but the missile carrier is construction that have in next year it's 60 birthday.
And no, the current Tu-95MS are far younger then B-52. for example. There were several generations of Tu-95, do not forget about it.
>and easy to detect...
>have no chance of surviving on modern battlefield
Wow =) There is no need to detect them. They will be far away from "detecting guys' Tactics for Tu-95 evolved greatly. It is not that classic Bear any more.
>And nothing to replace them right?
PAK DA, project in early stages. There is no haste in retiring Bear and Blackjack - so why there would be haste? When it will fly? When it is done.
You are so right, because Russia offered The Ukraine a treaty 'The West' send in troops to invade the country on a bit of a pretense, escalating this conflict in to spiraling out of control..
ReplyDeleteHorrid...
To make matters worst our supreme dictator is now missing...
>well, no it is not anymore
ReplyDeleteAs long as Russia possess the best Nuclear Shield among the planet - it can call itself superpower. Yars and Rubezh are far more dangerous, than grandfarthers-made Minuteman and other things. Not to mention of how many training takes place in our RVSN - i guess it is bigger then every other nuclear countries drilling in total.
So by means of raw nuclear power Kremlin is SuperPower. A pretty "huge" argument.
And by means of military force Russia is comparable only to US. Europre along wont stand a chance - Putin can draw army of 200k guys in a week - and this is just a "first wave"
So means of military power Russia is a part of Big Boys Club.
>In other hand Kremlin want to play again in big boys club.
And it plays. Kremlin crushed Georgia, Kremlin Crimea, Kremlin stopped west at Syria and protected Asad.
It Big Boys Club do not want to realise Russia as an equal member - well, Russia wiil create its own Club. Old story.
>A terrible move..
ReplyDeleteWe will see.
You can see it this way - Kremlin decide to break this tie(food) when he can. and not waiting for EU to suddenly stop provides provision. If the tie is certain to break - you should break it when it suits you.
The less ties Russia has with West - the less capabilities to manipulate.
Ah the nukes argument... that put you only in nuke power not the Superpower. Superpower is more then nuke arsenal, it's domination by both Economical and Military ways. For military aspect Russia is only regional power not a world one, they are unable to project own power in every term on global scale.
ReplyDeleteWe have more nukes is only one of couple points that put you in to that club. After Soviet Union was kick out from it by "universe" it lost membership and still not get it back, even if they really want it. To be true there are only two Superpowers on the world by now, US and China... then we have regional powers like EU, India, Russia and maybe in the future Brazil.
The Russia club had always one member... Russia.
- The less ties Russia has with West - the less capabilities to manipulate
ReplyDeleteAnd vice versa...
>For military aspect Russia is only regional power not a world one, they
ReplyDeleteare unable to project own power in every term on global scale.
And EU can? Dont make ma laugh. Russia can turn Eurasia into dust, and it is not sufficient to be a military strong country? =)
>US and China..
China is a superpower? You must be ill. Their military is a parody and cosplay of the Soviet's. Poor cosplay. Russia is far superior to them.
So the military component of China is high enough for Super Power level.
>The Russia club had always one member... Russia.
So the Crimea "entered the club" =) And two of a kind are to join the party.
Putin wants Russia to be considered as equal because he wants to make an equal dialogue.
If the nationalists will take his place - well, they will not need the "dialogue". The Security System of the World has almost crumbled - time for party.
In Crimea and Georgia Russia didnt use a manipulation.
ReplyDeleteIt just beated the hell out of enemy, placed tanks and said "this is how it will be". Why manipulate when sometimes you can just take it?
I did not put EU in the Superpower group as you notice... but as they are in conventional terms more powerful military then Russia it's too divided to be treated as one. In Economical power it's couple of levels above Russia.
ReplyDeleteChina... you overestimate Russia and seriously underestimate China. Remember, Russia did beg for new deal with China not around... again it's economical power is couple of levels above Russian one, they have solid nuclear capability. Much more powerful military that you think... and what they don't have, Russia will be more then happy to sell it to them. Russia is not far... not even equal to China, it's behind it about two decades.
Economical and military component give China the level of Superpower.
Crimea became an part of Russia not part of it's club.
You look only on military power... in that form, the only as the Russia have are nukes in conventional war, you would be devastated pretty fast. For frak sake, Russia have LESS citizens then JAPAN!
You are kidding right? No manipulation in Georgia and Ukraine?! There were HUGE manipulations there.
ReplyDelete>you overestimate Russia and seriously underestimate China.
ReplyDeleteWe work with Chine very close, training performs on regular basis. The huge part of the military industry relies on Russian contractors, who actually do the job, etc.
And chinese know it well, this is why they insist on increasing military cooperation.
>Russia did beg for new deal with China not around
Beg? For what deal?
>hey have solid nuclear capability
Go on and read about it carefully. And compare to US, no to mention Nuclear Shield of Mother Russia. Chinese nuclear forces are, err, strange things.
>Crimea became an part of Russia not part of it's club.
You got the idea...
>For frak sake, Russia have LESS citizens then JAPAN!
And how many arms have Russia. Google about it, how many tons of boom-boom things there per every child, granny, girl and man =)
In conventional war Russia features an incredibly powerful reserve system and now extreme level of collecting and manipulating forces. If it goes hot - Russia can summon an army about 5-6 times bigger, than standard. And they will be trained, will be equiped etc.
Well if getting a hundreds of tanks and simply take what is yours - is a manipulation - so well, you can call it this way.
ReplyDeleteFor gas deal... you know that China don't need that deal, Russia need that. It's still not decided who will pay for pipeline right? China will not pay... sooo... someone will going to put a shit ton of cash to pay for that.
ReplyDeleteSo why the need to open army service for other nationalities? Problem with that "powerful reserve"... ?
"What is yours" !? IT was NOT YOURS! But that's true you take it... something to be proud of right? hit the little guys...
ReplyDeleteRussia did much to provoke Georgians, and they did a stupid thing and get provoked to actions. Russia just wait for that and enter full force.
"No one know about our clothes"
ReplyDeleteSPOSN!!!
;)
Too much bla bla here to even react, but I couldn't help myself with this one..:
ReplyDelete"Su-35 is not a Su-27 after modernization. It is a almost a COMPLETE recreation of Su-27 on drastically new level."
"A good word for Su-35 is "mature". It is a complete evolved version.. etc. "
You do realize you are actually saying : Su 35 is a better, new version of the Su27, but its not a version of the Su 27 because its such a much better version of the Su27.. Ehm///
What the hell are you guys even arguing about? Recreation/ modernization.. whats the difference? This is like the F15A vs F15E Almost no part is the same, but its still the same BASIC design!
The best planes in the world are those that are continuously developed further. Be it the Su27, the F15, F16 or the Gripen. We can all name several other examples, either new or historical.
In one way Russia is better of then 'The West' .. The Su35 is a much better basic airframe then the F35.
Cool down guys, it's not helping. We just have different points of view, though I agree Crimea had lots of manipulation, which was why Russia initially denied involvement, but it's hardly the only one playing games. s300, textiles is a good area to expand into, food too. Try to ship exotic food to Asia, they are crazy about food.
ReplyDeleteAnother possible method for outside currency gain is something like what India was doing, export a lot of workers around the world. They work, they get paid, they send it back home, they learn outside techniques, they come home. Give it 2 decades and you'll catch up.
Or if you can keep the Russian Mafia away from foreign companies, ask for cooperative foreign investments in things like mining and manufacturing from China and maybe even Asia. I for one, know that if the communications gap gets reduced and security improved, Temasek and GIC, Singapore's investment arms, would love to get into the Russian market. Sometimes, the best bargains are where people never think to look.
>You do realize you are actually saying : Su 35 is a better, new
ReplyDeleteversion of the Su27, but its not a version of the Su 27 because its such
a much better version of the Su27..
You take a some basic ideas of Su-27 and create on a complete new level. Su-35 looks similar - but airframe is different.
Su-35 is the most manoeuvrable aircraft nowadays, most controllable. In terms of pure aerodynamics it outperforms every fighter nowadays. Including Raptor and possibly PAK FA(its airframe designed for different tactic)
Irbis a very powerful radar, despite of bein PESA, not AESA. While not being "active" it possesses about 60-70% features of active radars - because there were about 20 years of evolution of aircrafts PESA in Russia.
Khibini is a new most advanced universall modular jamming system, which already proofed itself well. Now every Su-35 could think of itself as a little Growler.
And some other stuff.
>For gas deal... you know that China don't need that deal
ReplyDeleteYou got a very interesting propaganda there =)
>So why the need to open army service for other nationalities
Good morning, sir! It is open from the very 1991 year - this is a another mechanism of taking a citizenship. It was designed for former-USSR countries, but works for everyone. Because - why not?
>Problem with that "powerful reserve"... ?
200k young guys undergo a year training every year. I guess you can calculate the size of the reserve.
The quality of that training you can now see in Donbass, where former labourers and peasants a beating the hell out of ukrainian army. Rebels have very formidable training there. Guess who organized it =)
And what a EU can summon in case of emergency? One big gay-pride manifestation? =)
s300, don't underestimate them, they can be a pain.
ReplyDeleteFrom all that you're writing, I guess we can sum it up in "we don't need the world, we don't need trade, we don't need anything"? The problem with that is once you go down that road, you are going to have a very, very tough time climbing back up.
Look at the hole North Korea dug itself into. Or Myanmar? Hell, even the ancient Chinese were the "America" of the ancient world, until they did exactly what you did, and when they finally woke up, they found that everyone else had overtaken them and they ended up being the chicken other countries carved up to eat. How else did you think they lost Macau, Hong Kong and things like Nanking happened? All because they cut themselves off from the world for too long.
Not good.
>I guess we can sum it up in "we don't need the world, we don't need trade, we don't need anything"?
ReplyDeleteNo. We need either an equal world, or no world at all.
WTO forbids sanction, no? Did it stopped West from imposing sanctions?
Kosovo was torn out of Serbia because West wanted it - why we cant take Crimea to home?
And a lot of questions in such partnership. Who will rely on such partners? Where West can bomb Libya because Gaddafi because they wanted and we cant interfere with a damn civil war around our borders?
Someday we wanted to join NATO - what was NATO's response? Who will trust such partners?
>they found that everyone else had overtaken them
This is why I love our military industry so much. Try to overtake and see your homeland in flames, etc.
We have almost every type of resources, unlike North Korea and others. If we can forge a Nuclear reactor and a perfect SAM-systems - I guess, we will manage to create a normal cellphone =)
You start to put joke after joke... a propaganda in deal with China? :D
ReplyDeleteRemind me... WHO fly to China to ask for that deal? WHO wait to the end of visit to sign out papers? And hob BIG is an import of gas & oil from Russia to China.
Mechanism of taking out a citizenship? Interesting theory...
"where former labourers and peasants a beating the hell out of ukrainian army"... right...
> No. We need either an equal world, or no world at all.
ReplyDeleteEqual on YOURS terms... this is not equality. This is an madness theory "the world will be like WE want to or we will burn it". This is not equality... this is tyranny.
Don't try to discuss with galvar, it's a CG Artist expert in all europe history, economy, army...He don't seek the truth, he spray his point of view ( obviously the only good).
ReplyDeleteWhen is the world ever equal? If you're looking for an "equal" world, you lost it 20 years ago. And in the words of a certain writer, "Some are more equal than others".
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not American, you won't even know which country to raze, but since you love to threaten people, then may I wish "your homeland in flames" too? Great way to make friends isn't it? And you wonder why no one is siding with you? I gave you advice for an economic route to benefit Russia and I get threatened in return? Would people help you in the future if that is what we get in return?
Think most manoeverable might be the british typhoon, it was designed from the ground up for that, though it sacrifices a lot to get there. You can see from the size, it's damn small.
ReplyDelete76 comments for a cancelled Transporter? I thought the computer had an error. Then I saw the comments and a Baltic Hoedown is as best an explanation that I can give.
ReplyDeletePoland vs. Russia
ReplyDeleteOwl, the Russians were trying in earnest to improve their Electronics industry before the Ukraine fiasco. But as is everything with Russia, Realpolitik comes before Real Economics. And thats why the West still looks at Russia with suspicion and threat even though currently their economy is smaller than India's in real dollar terms.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing to admire and fear equally about Russia is that regardless of Economic cycles and inflation cycles and domestic issues.....when shit hits the fan, the Russians will go ballistic. Boom, depression, prosperity,recovery, galloping inflation, deflation, decreasing population etc. it matters the least to them.
And in this regard, the Chinese are more "Linked to the Market" than the Russians ever were and will be. At any rate, the number of "Merchants" in the Chinese economy and the political power they hold is greater in China than Russian Merchants in Russia.
Plus, If Solomons sight was accessible in Pakistan there would have been advertisements for "Halal" meat on the side.....heheh.
ReplyDeleteWell, seeing how much oil Russia has and how little leadership they have if something happens to that Great Banyan Tree called Putin, one can consider it a Middle East Country. Plus, now they have a proxy army as well. Just like Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia. Kudos to the new member of the GCC.
ReplyDeleteHey frogy, when where you been? We really miss your pacifist above all stand, ;)
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately true. The Chinese learned too well the power of money. The Russians still don't quite get the idea, maybe because they never held that power in their hands before.
ReplyDeleteI was taking a look at Crimea in the news, it actually looks worthwhile investing in! It's at rock bottom right now, but it's Russia's only resonable port and it's fairly secure, which would make it a great place to invest as it can only go up.
I actually have a crazy idea for Halal Turkey for the Middle Eastern countries... :)
ReplyDelete>This is not equality... this is tyranny.
ReplyDeleteAnd burning Libya just because you wanted - it is not a tyranny? He-he =)
>Remind me... WHO fly to China to ask for that deal?
ReplyDeleteWell, it is normal practice for such big deals, no?
It the same thing when chinese beg to sell them a S-400 in a standart configuration - and time after time receiving "not now" from our DoD.
>Mechanism of taking out a citizenship? Interesting theory...
Guy, who served in the military can ask for a more simplier procedure of acquaring citizenship. It was designed back in times where we got promblems with a contract, not summoned soldiers, nowadays this problem is no more.
>maybe because they never held that power in their hands before
ReplyDeleteIf "shit hits the fan" - money wont save you. Topol is not asking about you economic - well, target is a target, it does not care. Just like old daddy Minuteman, Trident, Lainer, Yars, Voevoda - and other stuff.
This is why - security first.
About a "merchants with power" - we already had a period, when merchants had the power in Russia. And we do not want to return to that maddnes. Better "ballistic boom", than that.
LOL
ReplyDeleteI am not arguing against the capabilities of the Su35... I am just pointing out YOU YOURSELF are saying it is a version of the Su27 only to follow with : it is not a version.. and then you continue this flip flop..
Why? can this aircraft not be extremely good and a huge leap above the Su 27 wile still being the same basic design?
Poland vs Russia
ReplyDeleteAND Common Sense vs partisan trolling
Gazprom... and that all I've got. :)
ReplyDeleteSo who are the "big boys"? USA certainly, though we've turned ourselves into a paper tiger. France? England? Germany? Only in economic terms. Their militaries are in decline. Who's that leave but Russia, China, India, and Japan?
ReplyDeleteBy both sides. CIA color revolutions and whatever you call the Russian covert ops counters to those.
ReplyDeleteThe act of taking was itself a manipulation. Russia has a beach-head in Georgia now, on their side of the mountains. Is Georgia going to be as likely to misbehave now that the Russian tanks don't have to travel through tunnels and over passes to get to them?
ReplyDeleteOhhh you think that that was the reason to bomb Libya.... ohhhhh that's cute :D
ReplyDeleteIn this moment? USA and China... in this moment only those two are in Big Boys club. They both have ability to project military and economic power on the level nobody can rival. When China military is not that powerful as US one, they have rather more solid economical power then states. More or less they equal... with China getting more power every year and US loses some. Then in the... waiting room to the club we have for sure India, rest don't have the momentum or scale. Japan it's rebuilding it's power... Brazil is possible in the future, EU is just a trade union so as you notice they also don't go there, only a regional power in terms of military and more global in economic but this is sum of every member not a single entity. Russia, regional power with ore power then single member of EU but still beaten by miles by share power of every in form of Union.
ReplyDeleteI would look at Iran... maybe, just maybe if they join with Iraq then, who know... who know. This would be an interesting poker night.
I thought the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI usually try to avoid internet trolls, especially ones named after an Air Defence System so now hear this s300v4 -
ReplyDeleteYour Topol's and Bulava's and Sukhoi's and Mistrals cost money. Money to maintain, money to research and develop, money to deploy, money to provide ordinance to fire. And that money supply took an A$$Whopin when the energy prices crashed and thats when since the discovery of Electricity and the modern age....your economy for the first time became eclipsed by my economy. Oh....and guess what?....Every single year your Tax paying citizens reduce in number.
You talk about "Security" over "Money"??......Wasnt it a gigantic race to be more Secure that the West that let to USSR's breakup and bankruptcy?
I am a big fan at how Russia goes about handling its business from time to time but dont give your self images of Grandeur. Even your army is just like the German Army of current times. You may have 8000+ tanks and 3000+ aircraft but just like the Germans.....you wont be able to mobilize even half of them let alone keeping them mobilized for an extended period of time. Dont think for one second that the rest of us arent aware of the corruption that till this day hollows and cannibalizes the Russian Army from within.
Merchants are always needed because its their entrepreneur talent that gets the whole process of Credit Creation started. Its what pays for social security you fool. And the last time I checked, its social "Security" that goes on to build national "security".
Now begone you Troll and let a true un-biased Russian who we all know as Info-Infantry resume the commentary here. Bugger off.
> usually try to avoid internet trolls,
ReplyDeleteThis is a second time somebody calls me a troll =) I feel kinda satsfied with it.
>asnt it a gigantic race to be more Secure that the West that let to USSR's breakup and bankruptcy?
No. It wasnt. Military didnt spend that much, as neoliberals screamed in 90th, justifying the destruction of the Army. They said that the army is the source of all problems - turned out it was a last resort for nation.
>Your Topol's and Bulava's
Even after the fall of USSR Russia, being a poor and a completely corrupted state managed to create a pure russian Topol-M variant, maintained the whole nuclear shield in a very hight level.
See, when the budget didnt get a oil-gas profit AT ALL(yes, it is how it was - no money for state. At all. Thanks to the merchants-with-power - they removed taxes from these resoucres or drstically cut it)
See - my country creates missiles even when there is nothing to eat - your country, so super-powerful creates a flying peace of shit, making a questions like "do you use a catapult or ballista to launch this stuff?". This is about a industry level. Oh my god. I still remember how your guys tried to create a Bars for Su-30MKI on your own - in the couple of month your called back "stupid russians" cause just assembling a device proved too difficult for "economicaly advanced country".
>Now begone you Troll and let a true un-biased Russian who we all know as
How is it called? "Boom!!!"? Nice =)
You mean that you want to slowly and deliberately bleed the country of Turkey to satisfy the appetite of the rest of the middle east?
ReplyDeleteHow positively ISIS of you. LoL.
And on a serious note....quick kill meat is better than the Halal/slow deliberate kill kind. The animals Fear hormones get mixed with the blood and meat as he/she is slowly put to death that gives Halal meat its special taste but fucks up your own digestive system with those hormones. Plus, it takes a MotherF*&%@r of a butcher to kill animals that way while listening to them die of fear..........slowly...........deliberately........while chanting your sermon and praising the lord. Nasty way to fill your tummy and gather nourishment. Veterinarians also prefer to kill a horse by shooting him/her in the face.
And the next time you create a decent competitive car or motorcycle, you are welcome to my country to sell it. I dare you. Make a competitive car....wont you? Even the Ukrainians have the Dacia Sandero. By the way, the next time you or a spoilt rich Russian son of a oligarch brat buys a Harley Davidson....drive with the fact that the Russian import wasnt made in Milwaukee but in Bawal, India. Its gonna be ditto for Triumph as well. Do you want to enrich my country's shareholders including me personally by buying a Jaguar/Land Rover as well? How about you go and create Infrastructure for your country by buying Cement and JCB cranes and Plastic re-inforced fibre, Steel and Aluminium from India? How about when you fall sick, are too poor to buy Western Medicine and then have to buy a Generic Indian life saver? Maybe you want to buy a mobile phone....too poor for an IPhone....how about a Made in India Nokia? Solar panels, wind turbines, hydro-electric turbines, thermal turbines? Or how about modern day telephone equipment and switchgear technology?
ReplyDeleteBy the way....when I greet all the members of this blog happy new year in 2016, your country will have even fewer people and tax payers and "Soldier" base than in 2015.
Thought Halal was quick kill? IIRC the process requires a big cut to bleed out the creature fast as opposed to "modern" small slit? I kind of remember this as my aunt owns a chicken farm and the cuts she made were very small when I saw her slaughtering the chickens.
ReplyDeleteThink you got it the other way around.
s300, if you're so satisfied with your country in such a state, then nothing we do or say is going to improve the situation. I find it a pity that your pride is getting in the way of Russia going forward and if that is the way Russia wants to go, then as a country, it is pretty much gone same as China in the past, or Japan or North Korea or Myanmar.
ReplyDeleteSome people really don't learn from history, so they repeat it. Keep going this way and Russia is gone.
As for your "nuclear missiles", I was around in the 1990s, the reports from the disarmament was that almost 80% of the ICBMs were unservicable, solid fuel boosters were not maintained and cracked, leaks, moisture damage etc. It was pretty bad. That is what happens when you don't have enough money, so don't be an idiot and say stupid things like money does not matter as long as you have military power. No money, NO military power other than the most basic.
And this is why I say that I don't think the Russians learned about the power of money yet.
ReplyDelete>to my country to sell it.
ReplyDelete>competitive car or motorcycle,
We are finishing Armata, I think your country will eventually buy it, so wait a little bit longer. It's better be your, than chinese, after all. Also, FGFA is not very long to wait, so just a little bit longer.
>too poor for an IPhone..
>How about when you fall sick, are too poor to buy Western Medicine
What? We have not the best healthcare system but still it is not that of a problem, especially in my region - some consider our heart-surgery clinic as one the 3 best in Asia. And it works for free, thats the law.
>to enrich my country's shareholders
Err. and who fights against a shareholders? It is your product, you have to take the profit. If your firm has build a plant in Russia - everything you managed to earn is yours, no one can claim that. If you pay all the taxes(not that big) - why not?
Do not understand that hate about "enriching" someone.
>will have even fewer people and tax payers and "Soldier" base than in 2015.
Well, no more, we are finally starting to grow. Especially with Crimea. +2 million people =)
>Banks and Financial institutions still dont have 1/10th the credit creating/credit mobilization capacity that my country has
Yes, thats right. Our government are one that should follow the Nemtsov way down the bridge.
Ukraine will best without Russia meddling with their political and economic affairs. Russians are such losers, can't swallow the fact that Soviet Union is gone and every ex-Soviet state is its own sovereignty now. But Putin is sill dreaming of the old glory and selling his ideas to most brainless stupid Russians wishing the same egocentric sour grapings.
ReplyDelete