Defence Technology Review answers your questions about STANAG 4569 Lvl 6 & AMV35

Ian, the editor over at DTR circled back to this blog, saw your comments and before I could pen your questions, he hit me up with answers.  His response is below....

Hey Solomon,

Saw the comments from DTR Sept post and thought I’d respond:

Andrew Benghazi

The last sentence on page 36 of that article mentions upgrading the armor to STANAG 4569 LEVEL 6.Is this something new? I thought STANAG 4569 only went to level 5. Does anyone know what the standard for level 6 would be?

EDITOR DTR:

For Land 400, meeting STANAG 4569 Level 6 requires protection against 30mm armour-piercing discarding sabot (APDS) rounds over the frontal section of the CRV, 90° left and right at best or 30° left and right at worst. So at 90° this not just the traditional ‘frontal arc’ that needs to be covered but also the turret and hull flanks.

Either way, meeting STANAG Level 6 is an extreme demand, and requires inches of armour and a huge increase in weight; adding 10mm thick sheets of fancy composite appliqué won’t do it. No surprise then that GVM of these vehicles will be the highest ever seen in a wheeled AFV competition.
There are a few comments here that Boxer will be too big and expensive for Australia. I think they are being made without understanding the requirement, particularly that for protection and how that will drive up the size, weight and cost of the vehicles. But least of all Boxer. Here’s why:
All the contenders will be big and heavy, perhaps heavier than their original designs intended. Except Boxer. It has the requisite motive power and running gear to cope with the weight (due to its already very high protection levels) out of the factory – no add-ons required. The others – AMV35, GD’s offering and Terrex II – will need upgrades to their powertrain, suspension etc to cope. This adds both risk and cost.

random reader

The AMV 35 looks interesting. Too bad that they only have photoshops of it...

EDITOR DTR:   

Both the advertisements from BAE (see inside front cover) and our own representations of the vehicle in the cover story are artist impressions. Doctored.   That’s because the AMV35 as a real put-together-vehicle does not yet exist. So far, only the Boxer CRV actually exists as a fully integrated hull/turret solution. Nothing from GD yet, nothing from Elbit-STK yet and unsure when the real AMV35 will appear.
That’s because the AMV35 as a real put-together-vehicle does not yet exist. So far, only the Boxer CRV actually exists as a fully integrated hull/turret solution. Nothing from GD yet, nothing from Elbit-STK yet and unsure when the real AMV35 will appear.That’s because the AMV35 as a real put-together-vehicle does not yet exist. So far, only the Boxer CRV actually exists as a fully integrated hull/turret solution. Nothing from GD yet, nothing from Elbit-STK yet and unsure when the real AMV35 will appear.

Good info here.

Looks like the armor race is really and truly on...especially with STANAG 6 coming into existence (I had NEVER heard of a level beyond 5).  I'm becoming a bit more curious about the AMV35.  Quite honestly I thought that plugging new turrets with bigger weapons into armored fighting vehicles was to the point of it being risk free.  Guess I was wrong.

Land 400.  I'm definitely gonna follow this program closely!

Sidenote:  Sorry about the "triple" in the post guys.  Late nights ya know!

Has Russia's 810th Marine Brigade deployed to Syria?

Many many thanks to Armandis for the link!

Question.

Are you curious about how involved the Russians are in Syria?  Are you wondering what their order of battle is if they've actually entered the fray?

Yeah.  Me too.

Thankfully it appears that a Russian Marine is chronicling his activities.  Check it out here.

Rosomak with XC-8 Turret sporting 120mm gun via Army Recognition...

CMI Defense can take a breather.  They've convinced me that they can mount a large caliber gun on practically any vehicle in anyone's inventory (within reason).

What I didn't know is that there was a defense exhibition going on.  Luckily Army Recognition has us covered and you can check out their coverage here and here.

Sidenote:  Greysave asked in another thread if it was even worth doing a "survivability upgrade" on the AAV.  I just don't know.  I'd be more in favor of increasing its lethality if we're going to continue to use it as an APC.  With that in mind how about replacing the manned 50/40 with a RWS and pulling a few out of storage and mounting a 105mm gun on it to provide amphibious mobile fire support?  I think that would probably be more valuable and could be accomplished while we wait another DECADE for the ACV to arrive.

Dawn Blitz 2015...photo by Mass Communications Specialist 3rd Class Brandon Cyr

Marines from 1st Marine Expeditionary Brigade and soldiers from 1 Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment embark amphibious assault vehicles in the well deck of the amphibious transport dock ship USS New Orleans (LPD 18) during Exercise Dawn Blitz 2015 (DB-15). DB-15 is a scenario-driven exercise designed to train the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps in operations expected of an amphibious task force while also building U.S. and coalition operational interoperability. The exercise will test staffs in the planning and execution of amphibious operations in a series of live training events at sea and ashore.

ESPN College GameDay You're Pissing Me OFF! RANT!

I know what you're trying to do.

I know that you think that broadcasting with a bunch of drunk college kids screaming in the background is somehow "immersive" for your audience.

I know that you think its cool.

It's NOT!

Its beyond IRRITATING and its terrible television.  I can barely hear you bastards and I'm getting to the point of simply turning off the sound.  Even worse?  Its obvious that you have these crowds trained to scream on cue.

KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF.

About that Chinese Propaganda Vid....

Everyone and their mothers sent me the above vid.  Quite honestly I didn't even bother watching it till I saw it on Bayou Renaissance Man's Blog.

I'm glad I did and I'm sorry I didn't watch it sooner.

What did I see?

1.  The thing that jumped out at me almost immediately was the timeframe in which the video was set.  It read "20XX".  That's pretty damn ominous and indicates a 10 year time frame for them to get the job done.  It also gives an indication that either..
(a)  They believe that the West/US will be so involved in another region that they will not be able to react in the Pacific..or...
(b)  They believe that the West/US will be so weak that we wouldn't dare oppose them...or...
(c)  They've taken the measure of our civilian and military leadership and think that we won't have the stomach to react.

2.  Did you notice the hardware involved in this mythical conflict.  Nothing fanciful.  Nothing exotic.  Nothing we haven't seen on parade.  The assumption is that they will be able to fight us and win with the basic gear that they already have on hand.

3.  We're finally getting a clue on how they view the J-20, J-11 and J-10.  If we're to believe this video then the J-20 is their new heavyweight fighter...the Chinese F-35 killer.  The J-11 and J-10 are multi-role.  Everyone assumes that the J-20 is an AWACs hunter.  Nope.  Its a response to our stealth fighters.

4.  Did you notice the clinched fist?  We can expect the Chinese to act as if they're the victim and is responding to US/Japanese aggression.  They show a crashed transport as being the catalyst for the fighting.  We can probably expect this in real life too.

5.  The Carrier killer part was interesting too.  I didn't count the number of launchers but the vid made me ask a serious what if.  What if this carrier killer carries multiple conventional warheads?  What if they're highly maneuverable.  What if they carry a number of decoys?  Hitting a carrier doing almost 40 knots is hard, but if they have MIRVs, if they have decoys and if they have long range drones feeding targeting information then this is a doable feat.

Long story short?

The Chinese have been reading my fiction.

The F-35 Program Manager gives a pep talk..

via DVIDS...

“From 2011, when we rebased the program to now, we are making some pretty slow but some good progress,” Bogdan said. “We are at a point now in the program where because of that progress, we are no longer slow and steady. We are past the slow and steady progress; we are now growing and accelerating rapidly on this program.”

Well this part is typical bullshit, but check out this part...

“We will do everything we can to give the Air Force everything they need,” Bogdan said. “If we fall through, the responsibility falls on me. But I need you to also do your part as well. This program runs on two things; money and trust. If people can’t trust what JPO or myself are doing, the program will crumble. So the key is integrity.

Did he really say that?  Did he say that the key is integrity?  Really?  Seriously?  Just plain wow.  But wait it gets better.  In walks a person named Rose.  What she does with the program isn't detailed, and neither is her title but she reverts to the usual bullshit (I'm guessing a Lockheed Martin drone assigned to dress up this ugly pig)...

“People love to criticize the F-35,” Rose said. “The reality is usually far different, as someone who has been involved in the F-35 program since 2009, the airplane is actually quite impressive, the capability that it brings is awe inspiring, we need to be patient, we need to work hard and we need to work hard to make it into the airplane we need it to be.”

People criticize the airplane because its body slamming the defense budget.  Not a quick death but a long, torture filled, bloody, gore fest that has basically damaged the Marine Corps and will do the same to everyone else thinking about buying the airplane.

Read it here for yourself.

Rosomak-M...is this the vehicle that Patria was to offer the USMC?

Thanks to Think Defence via Tim Fish Twitter Feed...

via Tim Fish@Sweenygov

New concept Rosomak-M vehicle increases payload, firepower and amphibious capability..

I've been digging all morning to try and get info on this vehicle.  No joy though. It sounds like the work that Lockheed Martin and Patria did on the USMC Amphibious Combat Vehicle project is not going to waste.

Is this the new standard Rosomak?  Have the Poles suddenly solved their swimming IFV issue with a new buy/upgrade (if possible...I have no idea whether existing models can be upgraded to the M-model or not).

Australia's Land 400 Contest (and hi-rez Rheinmetall Boxer pics)

Defence Technology Review has an OUTSTANDING piece on the Australian Land 400 contest.  What has me spinning is the fact that we're seeing the giants in the armored defense industry coming out swinging!  BAE vs. Rheinmetall?  Better than Frazier vs Ali!

I wasn't keeping tabs on it but Land 400 is gonna be good!  Forget the popcorn.  Beer and pizza for this one!

Bonus treat?  Check out Rheinmetall's propaganda website for this contest here!

Defence Technology Review covers the AMV35!

No spoilers!  Read it here!