Tuesday, September 06, 2016
The OX - Global Vehicle Trust designed to be built in 12 hours by hand.
Story here.
This truck is designed for use in undeveloped parts of Africa and can be assembled by hand in about 12 hours. I'm personally intrigued by the idea. Few people realize it but Japanese mini-trucks are real popular for use on farms and I could see this truck competing for that market here in the states.
The interesting thing? In my neck of the woods farm trucks don't require the same safety standards as 'regular' vehicles but they're limited to operating on side roads. For some people that's more than enough to get their day to day activities done. This might have a future.
Monday, September 05, 2016
Why is Turkey so convinced the US was behind the coup attempt and why are they zeroing in on General Campbell?
Thanks to Don for the link!
via Yenisafak
So what's really going on here?
One thing is certain. The Turkish govt is acting as if there isn't any doubt and that has major league implications not only for US policy in the Middle East but for NATO as a whole.
We've seen half hearted efforts by Chairman of JCS to patch things up and a quick visit by the SecState.
Whatever is going it needs to be worked and worked hard. The utterly unthinkable? What if the Turks are right? Could we actually have been crazy enough to plan a coup of a NATO member? I say impossible. No one could be that stupid. Not even the Pentagon, White House, State or CIA.
via Yenisafak
A former U.S. commander of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), a NATO-led security mission in Afghanistan, was the organizer of the July 15 military coup attempt in Turkey, sources said.This has gone beyond being an accusation and an annoyance. Turkey is behaving as if they have solid evidence that the US was behind the coup attempt. But why? Additionally they're zeroing in on General Campbell with laser beams but have yet to provide any evidence.
General John F. Campbell was one of the top figures who organized and managed the soldiers behind the failed coup attempt in Turkey, sources close to ongoing legal process of pro-coup detainees said.
Campbell also managed more than $2 billion money transactions via UBA Bank in Nigeria by using CIA links to distribute among the pro-coup military personnel in Turkey.
The ongoing investigation unveiled that Campbell had paid at least two secret visits to Turkey since May, until the day of the coup attempt.
The coup plot that was foiled by the comprehensive effort of Turkish Nation, including its citizens, politicians, media and police forces, was organized by the Fethullah Terrorist Organization (FETO) led-by so-called cleric Fethullah Gülen who has been living in self-exile in America for several years.
American Intelligence, Military and other institutions are accused of supporting the FETO leader Gülen and his gangs for the military coup.
So what's really going on here?
One thing is certain. The Turkish govt is acting as if there isn't any doubt and that has major league implications not only for US policy in the Middle East but for NATO as a whole.
We've seen half hearted efforts by Chairman of JCS to patch things up and a quick visit by the SecState.
Whatever is going it needs to be worked and worked hard. The utterly unthinkable? What if the Turks are right? Could we actually have been crazy enough to plan a coup of a NATO member? I say impossible. No one could be that stupid. Not even the Pentagon, White House, State or CIA.
You say hardcore...dedication...cool. All I see is pain...
People look at the above pic and say that's so hardcore, he's so dedicated and that's cool.
All I see is pain.
How they get guys to volunteer for the honor guard is beyond me. I mean seriously! That poor bastard volunteered to stand outside in the snow, during hurricanes, blistering sun....all while on enhanced guard duty (I'm being sarcastic...I understand the important symbolism here).
The vid below has to be the theme song for the ceremonial bubbas.
China develops a new 8x8 Mobile Gun System via Defence Blog.
Story here.
The US Marine Corps is losing the armor race. Do you really believe that Company Landing Teams and their "Expeditionary Squads" will be able to survive against what we're seeing coming down the pike?
HQMC seriously needs to rethink its doctrine. It might not want to prepare for a peer war but our enemies are voting differently.
Preview of Army 16! Pic Heavy.
Thanks to D90 for the link!
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Can anyone tell me what this is? |
The Philippines launches a "REAL" war on drugs.
Thanks to William for the link!
via Daily Mail.
But Duterte warned that he is a leader of a sovereign country and is answerable only to the Filipino people.And then this.
'Who is he to confront me?' he said, adding that the Philippines had not received an apology for misdeeds committed during its U.S. colonization.
I am a president of a sovereign state and we have long ceased to be a colony. I do not have any master except the Filipino people, nobody but nobody.
'You must be respectful. Do not just throw questions. Putang ina I will swear at you in that forum,' he said, using the Tagalog phrase for son of a bitch.
'Until the (last) drug manufacturer is killed we will continue,' Duterte told reporters before leaving for a regional summit in Laos, where he is due to meet U.S. President Barack Obama on Tuesday.This is fascinating.
The White House had no immediate reaction to Duterte's comments. Obama has been attending a meeting of the Group of 20 nations in Hangzhou, China.
Duterte won elections in May and immediately promised a law-and-order crackdown on drugs.
'These sons of w****s are destroying our children. I warn you, don't go into that, even if you're a policeman, because I will really kill you,' the president told an audience during a speech in the country's capital, Manila.
Duterte made it clear he would pardon police if they were charged with human rights violations for carrying out his merciless orders.
Nearly 60,000 Filipino drug addicts surrendered themselves last month to the government after President Duterte urged citizens to 'go ahead and kill' drug dealers and users.
Ignore the demeaning talk directed toward our President (as offensive as it is) and focus on the results. 60K drug addicts have surrendered to authorities.
Drug dealers are being terrorized instead of communities.
Is this the first real deal war on drugs that we've seen anywhere on this planet? Is this what happens when a nation decides to directly confront a problem and eradicate it?
There are lessons to be learned here. Duterte might be a mad man but he might be onto something.
Turks complete operation to close border to ISIS.
Thanks to Filippo for the link!
via Washington Post.
1. The war against ISIS was a lie. They were never the focus of our operations.
2. The lies that Generals have told about the fight against ISIS taking years to complete was just that. A concerted military effort achieved what I always believed. A force of approx 30K troops in the open desert could easily be defeated in short order.
3. The White House, Pentagon, and State Dept are hustling to try and position themselves to take part in the "victory" against ISIS. The meeting between Obama and Putin was more about trying to take part in a face saving gesture than anything else.
4. Assad will survive.
5. Turkey has abandoned NATO/US goals in the region and is going alone (personally while I despise Ergodan, I can't see this as a necessarily bad thing...every nation has their own interests to pursue).
6. No one is talking about it but Hezbollah is now more dangerous than ever. They have gained operational experience. Their stocks have been replenished and enlarged. Once this is over Israel is going to have a much more dangerous foe right next door.
7. Iran is a huge winner. They not only picked the right side but they've established themselves as a new regional power. Further arms shipments from Russia will mean a fight between them and Saudi Arabia is just a matter of time. In that fight I wouldn't bet on Saudi Arabia.
8. Saudi Arabia has left the Syria fight and is focused only on Yemen. Unless they can end that fight quickly and positively the kingdom will be in trouble. I expect an offensive in Yemen soon with a partition to allow victory to be declared while they lick their wounds and rearm.
Long story short. Our Democrat/Republican Neo-Cons failed horribly. For all the shit that our elite talk about Putin, he beat the best and brightest from the White House, Pentagon, State Dept and CIA.
Now we're left with dealing with rebel/terrorist groups that we've armed to the gills. Expect a "joint" bombing campaign to destroy them soon.
via Washington Post.
Turkish troops and Syrian rebels on Sunday pushed the Islamic State out of the remaining stretch of territory the group had controlled along the Turkish-Syrian border, severing the militants’ last access to the outside world.I wonder if the powers that be realize what just happened with this announcement. In my mind it reveals...
Since 2013, when the group announced its formation, it has had territory bordering a NATO state — Turkey — but the sweep by Turkish forces and rebels fighting under the umbrella of the Free Syrian Army has brought that to an end.
According to the official Turkish news agency Anadolu, the Turkish army helped Syrian rebel allies secure 57 miles of border territory stretching from the Syrian towns of Azaz and Jarabulus by ejecting the militants from a string of villages on Sunday.
1. The war against ISIS was a lie. They were never the focus of our operations.
2. The lies that Generals have told about the fight against ISIS taking years to complete was just that. A concerted military effort achieved what I always believed. A force of approx 30K troops in the open desert could easily be defeated in short order.
3. The White House, Pentagon, and State Dept are hustling to try and position themselves to take part in the "victory" against ISIS. The meeting between Obama and Putin was more about trying to take part in a face saving gesture than anything else.
4. Assad will survive.
5. Turkey has abandoned NATO/US goals in the region and is going alone (personally while I despise Ergodan, I can't see this as a necessarily bad thing...every nation has their own interests to pursue).
6. No one is talking about it but Hezbollah is now more dangerous than ever. They have gained operational experience. Their stocks have been replenished and enlarged. Once this is over Israel is going to have a much more dangerous foe right next door.
7. Iran is a huge winner. They not only picked the right side but they've established themselves as a new regional power. Further arms shipments from Russia will mean a fight between them and Saudi Arabia is just a matter of time. In that fight I wouldn't bet on Saudi Arabia.
8. Saudi Arabia has left the Syria fight and is focused only on Yemen. Unless they can end that fight quickly and positively the kingdom will be in trouble. I expect an offensive in Yemen soon with a partition to allow victory to be declared while they lick their wounds and rearm.
Long story short. Our Democrat/Republican Neo-Cons failed horribly. For all the shit that our elite talk about Putin, he beat the best and brightest from the White House, Pentagon, State Dept and CIA.
Now we're left with dealing with rebel/terrorist groups that we've armed to the gills. Expect a "joint" bombing campaign to destroy them soon.
Turkish ACV-15's Armored Personnel Carriers have gotten their baptism....how did they do?
via IHS Janes.
Turkey launched what appeared to be a long-planned military operation on 24 August, when M60 tanks and ACV-15 armoured personnel carriers were seen advancing into Syria, while 155 mm Firtina self-propelled howitzers were deployed close to the border to provide fire support.We've all been so focused on the tanks that we missed the story about the apc's!.
The Turks super sized M-113, the ACV-15 has entered combat and not only are pics hard to find but so is info on their performance. How is the tank performing, have they upgunned them for real deal combat, and how many troops does it carry in actual operations?
So many question. So few answers.
NOTE: I stand corrected. The ACV-15 has already been used in combat. What I question my readers on is whether or not this is the same modification of the M-113 that we've seen with our European allies. On that I'm not so sure. Additionally in the comments section I mentioned that I might have jumbled my vehicle identification. THE HUGE M-113 modification that FNSS has done relates to the ACV-30. That is a beast of a vehicle!
Sunday, September 04, 2016
Israeli army introduces Dragon advanced firing system
via Globe.il
In recent days, the IDF land forces technology brigade has begun installing the Dragon advanced firing system on Achzarit armored personnel carriers (APCs) used by some infantry forces, and on Puma armored engineering vehicles used by engineering forces.I was bored until I read about a radar. Radar? I need more info guys.
Israeli defense electronics company Elbit Systems Ltd. (Nasdaq: ESLT; TASE: ESLT) land-based section developed the system according to needs defined by IDF land forces personnel, based on the lessons learned in recent conflicts, including Operation Protective Edge.
One of the Dragon's key features is its ability to quickly spot targets in both the day and the night, and under any weather conditions, using cameras installed on the APCs. Once the targets have been spotted, under various battle conditions, the system can deliver a short, accurate, and deadly burst of fire at an effective range of 1,500 meters, while the APC crew remains sheltered inside it, and the soldiers are not exposed on the battlefield.
In addition to the cameras providing high-resolution pictures day and night, the system also includes a small radar set enabling it to identify suspects in various theaters of activity, in open areas, and in urban areas. When the suspicious images are spotted, the Dragon makes it possible to lock in on them, and to direct accurate fire against them, while being operated through a computer located inside the APC.
Unknown Armor. M48/Leopard Hybrid!
Thanks to Costas TT for the pics!
I never knew this tank existed....always been a fan of the M60/M1 hybrid MBT 2000 that was offered for export and I thought the Marine Corps should have jumped on.
Is that a possible future? New turrets on existing hulls? Could we do a "Russian Armata" by creating a crew capsule in the hull of an M1 and developing some reliable, large caliber (140mm), autoloading unmanned turret?
I never knew this tank existed....always been a fan of the M60/M1 hybrid MBT 2000 that was offered for export and I thought the Marine Corps should have jumped on.
Is that a possible future? New turrets on existing hulls? Could we do a "Russian Armata" by creating a crew capsule in the hull of an M1 and developing some reliable, large caliber (140mm), autoloading unmanned turret?
Ancient Warfare. The Battle of 300 Champions!
via WarHistoryOnline.
The Greeks sure seem to like the number 300. The 300 Spartans (and their 7,000 allies) at Thermopylae, the 300 Theban Sacred Band, and the little-known battle of the 300 Champions, fought very early in Greek history. Before Persia was a grave threat, actually while Cyrus the Great was building Persia into an ancient superpower, the Greeks quite often fought amongst themselves. Greek shared culture did exist and this thin unity would save the Greeks from Xerxes later, but the link was thin enough for countless Greek cities to be ruthlessly sacked through a variety of Greek City-State wars.Read it all here. You won't be disappointed!
One such war was between the Spartans and the people of Argos (known as Argives, not Argonauts who were a band of mythical heroes) over the coastal town of Thyrea that lay between the two city-states. make no mistake, the Argives were outstandingly fierce soldiers, especially so during their early history. Around this time Argos directly competed with Sparta for dominance of the Peloponnese and competed well. When the Spartans took over the fertile plains of the Argive-allied Thyrea, the Argive army confidently marched out in force.
Saturday, September 03, 2016
Blast from the past. M48 Super Patton.
This blast from the past makes me wonder. Are we seeing the return of the Light and Medium tanks? Take a look at the Centauro 2 Mobile Gun System. If it was a tracked vehicle it would be considered a medium tank. Same could probably be said of the CV90120. The concept that the US Army is working on for its protected gun system could most certainly be called a light tank.
Here is a thought to get the armor enthusiasts going. Is heavy armor dead?
Are we finally swinging back to the point where mobility and firepower trump armored protection?
ATF declares gunpowder an explosive
Thanks to Mook and another person I will not identify for reminding me of this!
What have been the hottest issues this past week for the gun community? The ATF declaring gunpowder an explosive.
Why haven't I talked about it?
Because I'm conflicted!
Remember all the videos like the one above where people have been blowing up barns, vehicles etc...with Tannerite? Well imagine if the idiot in Tampa had decided to incorporate that into his plans? How about the shooters in Dallas and Baton Rouge?
I'm not even close to being one of those mad scientists that you find in the gun community and I could do some serious damage with the stuff as is. What happens if one of those good ole' boys decides to "enhance" the shit?
Oh and if you can do that with Tannerite then you can just as big a bang or bigger with gunpowder. See that 8lb jug of gunpowder?
You can buy that stuff off Natchez Shooter Supply over the internet without background check or documentation. Don't want to leave even that trace? Head to your local Cabelas or Academy Sporting Goods and you can pay cash.
The real issue is that no one trusts the government, especially the ATF/Obama Administration and you're getting a visceral reaction. Do I trust them? No. No I don't. Do I see the dangers of this being sold without being able to track the sales? Yeah I kinda do.
Do I blame the ATF? I'm not sure. Do I blame the gun community? Yeah a bit. We're our own worse enemy. I said long ago that those Tannerite vids would get unwanted attention and this seems bear that out.
Either way the reloaders are on a buying spree. That jug of gunpowder? Demand is so high that you can only buy one a day. Of course that means in 10 days you could accumulate 80lbs of material that can be converted to an explosive.
I know what you're thinking. You can do the same with diesel fuel and if you stayed awake during your classes on improvised materials then you could mix household compounds that could clear a building and make people sick as dogs. So why go after gunpowder? I think because its so easy...and because its a political target.
So long story short?
After all that I'm still conflicted. I know this is part of the anti-gun agenda but I also know that it can be justified.
What have been the hottest issues this past week for the gun community? The ATF declaring gunpowder an explosive.
Why haven't I talked about it?
Because I'm conflicted!
Remember all the videos like the one above where people have been blowing up barns, vehicles etc...with Tannerite? Well imagine if the idiot in Tampa had decided to incorporate that into his plans? How about the shooters in Dallas and Baton Rouge?
![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg4VxvvlhBjTRLYI8LeilE3b8ofqjOfcBP27ZZAzT_4JjkrOjIAgqA0t5G8i3OIl26oRDq8L_kVqWGsBuS6vf3g44rwenn69U0_PxzE9Ho610R2zfA3A73BmkvaNvZR3S9qxmOLBbweOoA/s320/wp2318.jpg)
Oh and if you can do that with Tannerite then you can just as big a bang or bigger with gunpowder. See that 8lb jug of gunpowder?
You can buy that stuff off Natchez Shooter Supply over the internet without background check or documentation. Don't want to leave even that trace? Head to your local Cabelas or Academy Sporting Goods and you can pay cash.
The real issue is that no one trusts the government, especially the ATF/Obama Administration and you're getting a visceral reaction. Do I trust them? No. No I don't. Do I see the dangers of this being sold without being able to track the sales? Yeah I kinda do.
Do I blame the ATF? I'm not sure. Do I blame the gun community? Yeah a bit. We're our own worse enemy. I said long ago that those Tannerite vids would get unwanted attention and this seems bear that out.
Either way the reloaders are on a buying spree. That jug of gunpowder? Demand is so high that you can only buy one a day. Of course that means in 10 days you could accumulate 80lbs of material that can be converted to an explosive.
I know what you're thinking. You can do the same with diesel fuel and if you stayed awake during your classes on improvised materials then you could mix household compounds that could clear a building and make people sick as dogs. So why go after gunpowder? I think because its so easy...and because its a political target.
So long story short?
After all that I'm still conflicted. I know this is part of the anti-gun agenda but I also know that it can be justified.
The President of Venezuela is chased thru the streets...one tiny step away from anarchy!
Thanks to William for the link!
via NY Times.
The other thing is this. Want to see anarchy? Let things reach a point where people aren't in the "I want to have this because its cool so I'll steal it" and move on to the "I'm fucking hungry (real hungry, not false food cravings Americans have) and I'm gonna get food for my family" phase.
This is when neighbor starts killing neighbor and people start roaming into gated communities and govt warehouses.
Trust me folks. This thing could pop.
via NY Times.
President Nicolás Maduro was chased at a routine political event by a crowd of angry protesters banging on pots and yelling that they were hungry, just days after thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets to call for his ouster, local news media reported on Saturday.The action desk at Southern Command should be having a terrible weekend. This is the kind of stuff that is off the radar (I'm still amazed that the major news networks are barely covering this...this isn't front page news in the Times and is found in the "Americas" section) but will have major regional implications.
Scenes from the confrontation late Friday, which also appeared in videos uploaded to social media, captured the attention of Venezuelans, many of whom blame the unpopular president for the country’s food shortages.
In one video, Mr. Maduro tries to calm the pot-bangers by walking among them, only to be surrounded as the furious crowd yells obscenities.
“What is this?” an astounded voice behind the camera asks in one of the video clips.
Mr. Maduro had traveled from the capital, Caracas, to Margarita Island off Venezuela’s northern coast to inaugurate a number of new public housing units and give a televised address.
During the speech, he denounced his opponents’ calls for his removal from office, calling them “vampires” and saying they were preparing for violence.
Foro Penal, a Venezuelan human rights group, said 20 people had been arrested after the protest in the island town of Villa Rosa. Mr. Maduro’s office made no statement about the episode.
The other thing is this. Want to see anarchy? Let things reach a point where people aren't in the "I want to have this because its cool so I'll steal it" and move on to the "I'm fucking hungry (real hungry, not false food cravings Americans have) and I'm gonna get food for my family" phase.
This is when neighbor starts killing neighbor and people start roaming into gated communities and govt warehouses.
Trust me folks. This thing could pop.
Your cat is plotting your death...and probably needs to be vetted!
Thanks to Ryan the Red for the linK!
The perfect description of the chaos in Syria.
Thanks to Don for the link!
via UNZ.com
They've gone off the reservation in an attempt to salvage this terrible situation that the fantasy land Democrat Neo-Cons (yeah...Hillary's acolytes) have done to our policy in Syria.
I can't state enough how utterly pitiful it is to have this 8 way circular shooting range going on.
via UNZ.com
What a mess! In the crazy Syrian war, US-backed and armed groups are fighting other US-backed rebel groups. How can this be?This whole article needs to be highlighted. What are the uptakes? The Pentagon and CIA have gone rogue because the White House and State Dept don't have a plan to deal with the mess in Syria.
It is so because the Obama White House had stirred up the war in Syria but then lost control of the process. When the US has a strong president, he can usually keep the military and intelligence agencies on a tight leash.
But the Obama administration has had a weak secretary of defense and a bunch of lady strategists who are the worst military commanders since Louis XV, who put his mistress, Madame de Pompadour, in charge of French military forces during the Seven Year’s War. The French were routed by the Prussians. France’s foe, Frederick the Great of Prussia, named one of his dogs, “la Pompadour.”
As a result, the two arms of offensive US strategic power, the Pentagon, and CIA, went separate ways in Syria. Growing competition between the US military and militarized CIA broke into the open in Syria.
Fed up with the astounding incompetence of the White House, the US military launched and supported its own rebel groups in Syria, while CIA did the same.
Fighting soon after erupted in Syria and Iraq between the US-backed groups. US Special Forces joined the fighting in Syria, Iraq and most lately, Libya.
The well-publicized atrocities, like mass murders and decapitations, greatly embarrassed Washington, making it harder to portray their jihadi wildmen as liberators. The only thing exceptional about US policy in Syria was its astounding incompetence.
They've gone off the reservation in an attempt to salvage this terrible situation that the fantasy land Democrat Neo-Cons (yeah...Hillary's acolytes) have done to our policy in Syria.
I can't state enough how utterly pitiful it is to have this 8 way circular shooting range going on.
Turkish backed Free Syrian Army fighting YPG (Kurds)?
Thanks to William for the link!
via ABC News.
One thing is obvious though. Assad isn't on anyone's radar anymore. The FSA is fighting ISIS, FSA is fighting Kurds, Kurds are fighting ISIS, and so on and so forth.
Syria will lose land because Turkey is about to gobble up a buffer zone but that regime will survive.
via ABC News.
Turkey's state-run news agency says Turkish tanks have entered Syria's Cobanbey district northeast of Aleppo in a "new phase" of the Euphrates Shield operation.This propaganda piece is just all kinds of concerning. So now the Free Syrian Army that is backed by the CIA and getting all kinds of new weapon drops is fighting our other more reliable ally, the Kurds?
Turkish tanks crossed into Syria Saturday to support Syrian rebels against the Islamic State group, according to the Anadolu news agency.
Turkey launched a cross-border operation on Aug. 24 along with Free Syrian Army units to clear the village of Jarablus of IS militants. Since then, rebels have been seizing villages along the Turkish border near Jarablus and the western Cobanbey district from IS, reports Anadolu.
The Turkey-backed Free Syrian Army units have also been fighting U.S.-backed Kurdish People's Protection Units or the YPG. Anadolu says "with this new phase of the (Euphrates Shield) operation, the Azaz-Jarablus line is expected to be cleared of terror elements."
One thing is obvious though. Assad isn't on anyone's radar anymore. The FSA is fighting ISIS, FSA is fighting Kurds, Kurds are fighting ISIS, and so on and so forth.
Syria will lose land because Turkey is about to gobble up a buffer zone but that regime will survive.
J-20 in Tibet. via Mike Yeo's Twitter Page.
Thanks to Joe, Savabir Singh and other that sent the link!
Could we all be looking in the wrong direction? When it comes to the next peer fight I always think China vs. Japan, S. Korea vs. a collapsing North, etc...but we're missing the obvious.
The two countries that have swords out and are spoiling for a fight (if there already aren't skirmishes happening that we don't know about) is China and India at the top of the world.
Between India rushing Mountain troops and material to the area to China doing the same and developing weapons designed to fight at altitude (their new light tank) I think that will be battlefield to watch.
I can even tell you how it will start. China will do a border incursion, India will respond forcefully and it'll escalate from there till the UN can step in and beg both sides to stop. By the time that happens we'll probably see a couple of brigades on both sides involved in a big fight.
LRIP J-20 reportedly photographed in Tibet pic.twitter.com/eu4Y2Vr8np— Mike Yeo (@TheBaseLeg) September 2, 2016
Could we all be looking in the wrong direction? When it comes to the next peer fight I always think China vs. Japan, S. Korea vs. a collapsing North, etc...but we're missing the obvious.
The two countries that have swords out and are spoiling for a fight (if there already aren't skirmishes happening that we don't know about) is China and India at the top of the world.
Between India rushing Mountain troops and material to the area to China doing the same and developing weapons designed to fight at altitude (their new light tank) I think that will be battlefield to watch.
I can even tell you how it will start. China will do a border incursion, India will respond forcefully and it'll escalate from there till the UN can step in and beg both sides to stop. By the time that happens we'll probably see a couple of brigades on both sides involved in a big fight.
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